Arizona church borrows 360 branding
Ran across this last week at Major Nelson's place. According to the ChatterBox forums, where the flyer turned up, a church in the Phoenix, AZ area has "borrowed" the Xbox 360 branding to promote themselves. Alon from ChatterBox sums it up pretty well, "I'm half flattered, half pissed, and half mesmerized by the size of their balls."
First Jesus was "discovered" on some Xbox 360 packaging, now this...
Click the "Read" link to see the back of the flyer.
[Via Major Nelson]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Art Guy @ Feb 21st 2006 4:41PM
It's one thing to be "inspired" by another artists designs, but this blatantly rips off several of the 360 design elements. Whoever came up with this horrific copyright infringing idea needs to be fired. Believe it or not, it's possible to create an youth targeted ad without "borrowing" ideas from other people. Now, I haven't been to church in a long time, and the rules may have changed, but I'm pretty certain one of the commandments was "thouest shant stealist" or something like that. Maybe the new "hip" church threw that old stodgy rule out.
I doubt MS will sue since it is a church and no real damage has been done, most likely MS will just send a strongly worded cease and desist letter and nothing else will be done. But churches need to know that they are not above copyright laws just because they are non-profit.
Nate @ Feb 21st 2006 5:56PM
I'm sorry, but where do you see wrong in a non-profit organization utilizing a symbol of pop culture to help spread their message?
I'm a gamer, but I'm also very religious. I think that its an interesting way of getting to the youth.
And, by the way, it is "Thou shall not steal"... I doubt that God scorns this noble attempt at trying to bring some values into the lives of the young.
WillGonz @ Feb 21st 2006 6:01PM
Don't Mess with God!!!
DeadPlasmaCell @ Feb 21st 2006 7:05PM
Reminds me of the stupid church out here in Houston that did a whole "Theology of the iPod" deal and how it some how has something to do with Church & Christ or somethin.. pretty lame.
Bo Huskon @ Feb 21st 2006 7:59PM
I'm from Arizona
drako @ Feb 21st 2006 9:36PM
and no one else noticed that major nelsons whole consists of 3 halves... interesting...
Lectoid @ Feb 21st 2006 10:06PM
That looks like an upside down cross. They should have at least rotated the picture up instead of down.
A @ Feb 21st 2006 10:36PM
Nate - Theft is theft. As you know, not only does your god frown on that, but so does the law. It doesn't matter that in this case it was a church doing the stealing. Would it be ok with the KKK (a non-profit organization) was using the 360 branding for their marketing materials? There is no difference between a church and the KKK in the eyes of the law for this type of case. Not only that, but copyright theft is stealing no matter if the the organization is non-profit or not, you can just sue them for more damages when they are profiting from it. The simple fact of this issue is that MicroSoft is required by law to protect their trademarks when they are being infringed upon or else they lose their rights.
And by they way, this attempt to cater to the youth culture is anything but nobel since it is premeditated theft of the look and feel of the 360 design elements, not just a random coincidence that happens to look similar to the 360 marketing.
B @ Feb 22nd 2006 12:08AM
Would God frown on a man who stole bread from a wealthy traveler to feed starving kids? I dont think so.
I also dont think God will frown upon his shepards trying to spread his word by using a logo by a billion dollar corporation.
Mr. A. you have been brain washed. You need to learn the differance between the law and morals. There are tons of laws in life which are morally wrong. Most intelectual laws are there to help protect the creators work from being stolen, but in cases like this, going with the law is just stupid.
I hate all them anti-piracy, copying, using people like Mr A.
Ben @ Feb 22nd 2006 12:49AM
A never said he was anti piracy did he B. What A said is correct. I realy dont think it is morally wrong to tell that church to stop using that design. There was no reason for them to copy that design other than to try and rope teens into the religion or at the least that specific church. They were trying for a parody(the dont want you to think they made it up I hope) of microsofts campaign obviously since they even used the same slogans. How do you end up on their mailing list?
Hopefully it is only sent to people they know to be Christians because if they are recruiting people using a parody that is just laughable. That tactic is similar to something a cigarette company would use.
*sorry for any grammar and spelling errors
Ben @ Feb 22nd 2006 12:55AM
Also recrutng kids into a religion has no similarities to feeding starving children does it. It sounds like B has been brain washed by religion.
Your last statement is very broad isnt it. please clarify what you meant when you said you hate Artists, muscicians, game devs, etc. because im sure any one who creates any sort of media is against piracy. Sorry for double flame post but im angry.
scotius @ Feb 22nd 2006 12:58AM
Um...granted, it's hard to know this with how things kind of twist and turn in western judicial systems, but...a law is a law. It ain't no sometimes thing. Whether it's a positive ( helps MS's image ) or negative ( hurts MS's image ), it still affects MS by implying their support by using their branding. Particularly, as Mr. A put it, that they stole the exact designs. Mr. A has the right of it. So let this be a conversation between A and C (and everyone else) and B your way out of it. *cough* Sorry, had to say it.
J Fish @ Feb 22nd 2006 1:10AM
Bill has the key to the Gates of heaven. That's why he's rich and they call him Bill Gates. He is Billy the Gatekeeper and thouest shall not stealeth from his capital generating monopoly or he shalleth unleash his wrath of lawyers upon thy miserable flesheth. Burn In Hellllllllllll Church People!!!!!!!!!
neale @ Feb 22nd 2006 6:22AM
all religion does is causes problems. yet another one right here.
ben, dont argue with them. none of u seem to know ur religion properly. look at jack t
so the church is none profit, where doe sthe money go? fix the roof? i say do something about it MS. Because they are a church, they think they can get away with it. they should stop forcin it into our faces, with blatent ripoffs of soemthing we can relate to.
JT @ Feb 22nd 2006 10:09AM
Thy shall not steal (marketing identity). Does this mean I can create a cult (say, flying spaghetti monster 2), declare myself 'non-profit', and rip off whoever I please? By the way, church? Non profit? Come on!
xrayderG @ Feb 22nd 2006 11:40AM
I find it funny that were a culture of gamers who play games consisting of Killing and destruction, and wait in lines to get 360's in order to do it but we get all bent on something that ties to the ultimate good in the world.I play all those games, hear all the language on line from little pre-teens, and adults playing the pre-teens.It's to bad your only drive in life is to support profit companies who care less if your daddy is beating your mom. It's all about taking a stand. are you helping others who need help or helping those who just want your money?
Chimera @ Feb 22nd 2006 12:32PM
xrayderG...i would say it was more about the principle. If somebody stole your advertising campaign and relied on a well established brand to spread the word of god,then you wouldnt be very pleased now would you.Oh and for all of you slagging of Mr Gates: He gave us computers, we would not be typing on this wepage on the net if it wasnt for him. He desrves all the money hes got and he gives millions to charity. church non profit? LMAO
JT @ Feb 22nd 2006 12:54PM
#16, I'm sorry but your ppoint has nothing to do with an organisation copying protected material. And once again, I hardly see a difference between a greedy MSFT and a greedy (and much crazier) Pat Robertson or anyone else speaking in the name of God to rake in millions. Besides, I hate it when condescending others try to make me feel bad, guilty or sinful. I know it's the whole point of religion, but give me a break. I don't need a chapel to know I have to help others...this is called common sense... Jeez!
Art Guy @ Feb 22nd 2006 1:43PM
xrayderG - You are missing the point entirely. The legality of this case has nothing to due with the thieves working for a church, it doesn't really matter who stole the intellectual property, just that is was stolen. The fact that it was a church has no bearing, as it could have been any non-profit group, even something as vile as NAMBLA. By law, MicroSoft can not allow their materials to be used without express permission otherwise they forfeit their own rights to said material.
Personally, I would never classify these thieves as pervaders of "the ultimate good in the world", in fact I find the opposite to be true since they are brazenly defying both church and secular law. I'm not dissing all churches or religion, as they can do a lot of good for communities, but just this particular church who thinks they exist outside the laws of god and man. I'm just not following the logic in why any church should be able to break laws with impunity. Where does one draw the line?
Richard A. @ Feb 22nd 2006 2:15PM
So wait a minute....
A church imitates XBox 360 branding to pass out an outreach to its youth... and everyone cries FOUL... meanwhile...
Where are all the complaints about borrowing the Adidas branding for those white and green "Addicted" cannabis leaf t-shirts?
Or about college fraternities and sororities borrowing similar consumer branding to promote their organizations? I've seen many merchandise promoting Greek orgs with imitated branding from Final Fantasy, Family Guy and the Matrix...
Let's not forget the ENDLESS imitation of the iPod consumer branding on everything from posters, to mouse pads, to blunt wrappers..
Imitation is the best form of flattery. In the minefield of "one-man-borrowing-from-another" I smell a rotten religious bias from the people on this forum... such a big deal for a church to do somethng that's already being done by virtually everyone else in the consumer market.
Art Guy @ Feb 22nd 2006 3:09PM
Richard A. - The reason you aren't seeing those particular complaints about Apple and Adidas is because this is a Xbox 360 site, and therefore those topics are not relevant to 360 fanboys.
But you must have missed the copious number of lawsuits that Apple has filed against various companies that have infringed on their iPod trademarks. Most of the other things you mentioned sound like they are in violation as well and should be dealt with accordingly.
JT @ Feb 23rd 2006 1:03PM
"Where are all the complaints about borrowing the Adidas branding for those white and green "Addicted" cannabis leaf t-shirts?
Or about college fraternities and sororities borrowing similar consumer branding to promote their organizations? I've seen many merchandise promoting Greek orgs with imitated branding from Final Fantasy, Family Guy and the Matrix..."
Do not mistake parody (protected under the fair use of 17 USC 107) and a rather serious rip-off, please.
Aki @ Feb 23rd 2006 1:44PM
Whether or not using the logo is "serious" or parody is debatable. You can use parody to convey a serious message, so it's not necessarily unlawful. A previous poster summed it up nicely--the anger is fueled from a negative bias against Christianity.
C. Grant @ Feb 24th 2006 9:34AM
I know anything religious tends to blow up as a result, so let's try to focus our discussion elsewhere. I don't want this to turn into a debate about theology.
aoi tsuki @ Feb 25th 2006 7:32AM
"Whether or not using the logo is "serious" or parody is debatable. You can use parody to convey a serious message, so it's not necessarily unlawful. A previous poster summed it up nicely--the anger is fueled from a negative bias against Christianity."
While i wouldn't be surprised to see some bias against Christianity spurring the case against the church, the resemblance is uncanny. For a second, i thought this was an actual Xbox360 ad, until i realize the Xbox logo was changed. i'm not about to compare this with actual Xbox 360 materials down to the pixel, but they've got all the same elements, logos aside, and seemingly placed the same. There's parody, then there's downright stealing. And for what it's worth, i think a lot of the aforementioned Adidas, Nike, et al "parodies" are actually cases of infringement. :)
If i were Microsoft, i'd politely ask them to stop distributing these and to not repeat this type of behaviour with their brands. It would have nothing to do with anti-Christianity and everything to do with brand infringement.
Had i been assigned to design this mailer, assuming i couldn't persuade the client to go another route, i would've put a disclaimer at the bottom stating that the Microsoft and the Xbox 260 were in no way affiliated with the church.
John Giotta @ Feb 27th 2006 5:47PM
Jeebus, this is flame war between religious idiots and wannabe lawyers.
Look at it plain and simple, the church is using an idol to get youth members and traversly its a sign of the weakness of the church.
The church can't convince on their own so they use shallow marketing attempts. Its not the first time a church has tried to do it, but its the weak minded idiots who think it genius.