GRAW backlash: "1200 MS Points? Kiss my ass"
by Ken Weeks 
{ Jun 23rd 2006 at 4:00AM }
That low, droning whine you hear is the predictable response to the price of the Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter's Chapter 2 Expansion pack, now available for download on Marketplace. Here's what you get for 1200 MS Points:
- Continuation of the multiplayer Co-op campaign with 4 all-new missions in Chapter 2
- 8 revisited, relit multiplayer Adversarial maps
- 2 all-new game types with 1 new game mode – Team Battle
- 2 new camouflage patterns
- 4 new character customization faces
- 5 new weapons
"1200 MS Points? Kiss my ass."
How many people will be shelling out for this relatively expensive expansion? Also, can somebody tell me what the PC people are getting for free?
[Thanks Andy]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Klintor @ Jun 23rd 2006 4:47AM
Fuck you, Ubisoft. Micropayments for small things are bad, Macropayments for small things are worse.
Jef @ Jun 23rd 2006 5:06AM
interesting. i cant wait to see peoples reactions to the price.
KineticOnline @ Jun 23rd 2006 5:07AM
Lets see how long it is before they try that on again! All the "content" is is a bit of code tweaking, a few more maps and some textures, not exactally what anyone would call full expansion, more like a mod.
Neal G @ Jun 23rd 2006 5:20AM
That's about 1100 more than I'd be willing to give.
I loved the first GR. I have bought every "Tom Clancy" game since rainbow six on PC. The games get worse ; the prices get higher.
I think I'll wait for GR4 (maybe a used copy)
Morgon @ Jun 23rd 2006 5:32AM
Just to be fair, Bankshot Billiards is also 1200 Points.
It is also the reason I don't own it.
mike @ Jun 23rd 2006 6:10AM
now eberyine will see how sony will be providing the ps3 live service for free... exspect X2 on the ps3
MrHorse @ Jun 23rd 2006 6:11AM
1. Congrats on being the last site on the net to report on it. Fan-boy site my ass...
2. Price is fine by me considering how large it is. $15 is reasonable to me, 1/4 the cost of a new game.
3. I want my fucking money back! I've had this damn thing downloading for 11 hours and it's only at 51% completed. There is no excuse for this BS! When one pays for not only the online service, but to also pay for the extra content, one expects a certain level of service. There should be a mass organised class action suit filed over this crap since MS will refuse any and all refund requests.
J.Goodwin @ Jun 23rd 2006 7:21AM
Too much. 500 was a gimme, 800 would have been reasonable, 1200 is for the hardcore only.
Crazyglues @ Jun 23rd 2006 8:22AM
LoL... now you cry... now...
All before you people where like 65 dollars is just the new price of games... you say -ok (no problem)
xbox live is not free.. it cost 69.99 bucks for 12 months at amazon.. you say -ok (no problem)
Now let me get this straight I already bought the game and now to get the game icons on my live account I got to pay..lol you say -ok (no problem)
And now drums please.... they release an expansion pack for $15 dollars and now you cry... Now... why the hell wouldn't they you pay for everything else... you did it to yourself, you only have yourself to blame... This moment in gaming ripoff's (Priceless)
GhostDoggy @ Jun 23rd 2006 8:22AM
Ubisoft ruined Splinter Cell and Rainbows Dix. Now Ubi has formally ruined Ghost Recon. I will never buy another Ubisoft game again.
For other game developers, this is good news. Those f-ing frenchies are going to help their competition. I guess $60 wasn't enough for Ubi when it came to GRAW. I knew I should have bought the PC version. $10 cheaper and additional content free.
The one thing GRAW-Live players could have counted on from Ubi (free additional d/l content) has just been put on the street corner like cheap whore.
Scott @ Jun 23rd 2006 8:43AM
You guys sound like $15 is a hell of a lot of money. Get a job then instead of complaining $15 is nothing.
VitaminDave @ Jun 23rd 2006 8:44AM
I have no problems with the pricing of this content. When compared to other forms of entertainment out there, $15 for content I'll use over the next 6-12 months is incredible value compared to what I might pay for cable/satellite, going to a movie, or even a week's worth of mochafrappacafelattes. The availability of content like this (even at this price point) was one of my key considerations in buying into the 360 concept to begin with.
Zacky V @ Jun 23rd 2006 9:11AM
Hey everyone still trying to download cancel it turn your 360 off and start it all back up because mine is now done and when I restarted like 20 minutes ago it was only at 59% so yeah restart everything because mine went a hell of alot faster
Gestault @ Jun 23rd 2006 9:15AM
Now the $15 price tag makes this d/l too much for it to be worth it to me, but i would like to point out that you could have waited..oh...like a month to pick up GRAW and gotten it for ~$15 cheaper like i did. It's a heck of a lot less of an investment.
Also, can you play the co-op missions single player? I know that sound like an oxymoron, but I wanna know.
C. Grant @ Jun 23rd 2006 9:18AM
MrHorse is MrGwumpy. Who needs a hug?
Carlos @ Jun 23rd 2006 9:19AM
1. Are there any extra acheivement points that you can earn?
2. If many of us balk at the price (i.e. horse armor) then maybe the price will come down (later) or next time UBI will give us more value for the money.
Zacky V @ Jun 23rd 2006 9:35AM
Ok I need to set things straight the PC content IS NOT I repeat IS NOT the same as the 360's.
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=141686
MrHorse @ Jun 23rd 2006 9:42AM
Mr. Grant.... we all need hugs.
Update: the download is done, not gonna play the co-op missions though as others are sleepin.
Thomas Crymes @ Jun 23rd 2006 9:43AM
It's not horse armor, but it's not a full expansion either.
Two things. I think it is too soon to release an expansion. It just makes it look like you withheld material from the release game to create an expansion. Also, I think they should have held off until they had more content. Then if they charged $20 for it, people wouldn't gripe as much.
Lastly, there is no need to be upset. If you don't think it is worth the price, don't buy it. If you don't think gamer icons are worth 25 or 50 cents each, don't buy them. If a majority of people feel the same way, the price will come down. If you are in a small minority minority (under say 30%) then you have to lump it or leave it.
It really is that simple. There is so much needless anger floating around. One thing is certain. Buying it AND griping about it, is stupid.
tanis38 @ Jun 23rd 2006 9:44AM
I don't know, it does seem a bit pricey. $15? I don't consider the new re-lit maps new content. They are a nice bonus, but how much work was it to just change the lighting scheme on those? New weapons? Nice, but there are only a few and over-all they're a small change. The big deal is the new Co-op maps and I don't see those justifying a $15 price tag, I just don't.
Puh_Fifer @ Jun 23rd 2006 9:47AM
I bought it, just for the co-op missions. The price is way out of line given previous Ubi costs for things like this. I've also been downloading it for about 13 hours with no luck on a 6MB down/768KB up connection.
Ubi is really gonna have to work hard to get me to buy Rainbow six vegas. With games like forza2 and GOW coming out at the same time and my recent disappointment in everything they do. Lockdown was one of the absolute worst games I ever played.
murph @ Jun 23rd 2006 9:47AM
come on, didn't you all see this coming? $10 would have been a little easier to swallow, but i'm not surprised.
this is why i'm glad i only paid for $40 for GRAW. so i'm still up $5.
and yes, the download is all %@#%ed-up. hopefully we'll all get refunds and the content for free.
MrHorse @ Jun 23rd 2006 9:47AM
Yes Mr. Grant me is angry at MS, although it completed downloading exactly 12 hour from start ti finish
Un cool Un cool
Ben Hobbs @ Jun 23rd 2006 10:09AM
How much do xbox360 games cost in the USA then, I live in Thailand and get Japanese Imports for $35-$50 a pop (strangely all EA games are $35).
(required) @ Jun 23rd 2006 10:14AM
It's all very simple, really. Don't purchase it. Really. Besides, in a few months they're probably going to offer it for free, just like the Halo 2 Mappacks.
1. If you want armor for your horse to match your armor, then you damn well deserve to get money taken from your wallet. Horse armor? Really?
2. If you want to customize your player picture with your favorite movie/video game star, you better be well prepared to fork over a few bucks. Although pictures of Jack Black as a Mexican cook/wrestler are gratis.
3. If you complain about having to pay to change your gamertag, you should have picked a better one in the first place.
4. The only reason why micropayments exist in the first place is to just piss you off. It works, and they'll continue to do it.
killr0y @ Jun 23rd 2006 10:14AM
Ok, I'm probably considered rich compared to most of you. Yes, I bought Chapter 2. Yes, it took 2 days and 4 retries to download. No, it probably isn't worth 1200 points. Yes, it is in fact very easy to "re-light" a map, its just a relatively slow process. How much do I personally think its worth? I think 800 points would be fair considering the ammount of effort needed to produce such content.
Microsoft has said time and again, though, that publishers are still in the experimental stage of pricing downloadable content. And to be fair to the publisher, nobody is forcing anyone to download the content. GRAW, of its own merits, earned AAA status with game critics the world over. As such, Chaper 2 should be in no way be consrued as "content that they left out just so they could charge more".
As Major Nelson once said (regarding the Horse Armor): "Vote with your wallets, people!" Actions speak louder than words you know. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. No need to flame Ubisoft or Microsoft.
Bill @ Jun 23rd 2006 10:42AM
It's actually 480 Pesos
BklynKid @ Jun 23rd 2006 10:46AM
No way I'm paying that.
Abe @ Jun 23rd 2006 11:06AM
Holy crap! Somebody call a waaaaaambulance, stat!
Ficklecriminal @ Jun 23rd 2006 11:11AM
The Co-op missions are fun and pretty good, more new maps would have been nice instead of the re-lit bullshit...that said, I'm a sucker and bought it, maybe I shouldn't have...All in all, I'll be able to sleep tonight.
SuicideNinja @ Jun 23rd 2006 11:49AM
"Besides, in a few months they're probably going to offer it for free, just like the Halo 2 Mappacks."
Not likely. Keep in mind that Bungie is Microsoft-owned, and Ubisoft is not. It is up to Ubisoft to agree to such.
I don't like Ghost Recon whatsoever, but I'm sure what is partly making this hard to swallow is that we got new Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory maps/co-op levels for free. Then they turn around and do this.
It seems that you are getting more than you would for paying extra for a "special edition" or "collectors edition" (if such were available). Sounds like $10 would have been the reasonable price though.
The 1200 for Bankshot is a bit more understandable because it is a whole game. I don't think that game is worth $15, but some might.
As far as paying for themes and gamerpics...it's just not going to happen for me. I purchased one theme, and it sucked. Never again.
andy @ Jun 23rd 2006 12:06PM
As with many other posters, I'm a bit disappointed in the 1200 price point for the download. Of course Ubisoft is entitled to charge whatever it wants for their product, but it would've been nice for Ubisoft to show some appreciation for the GRAW fans by perhaps pricing the download at a seemingly more reasonable (although of course this is debatable) 600 to 800 points. I became a big fan of Ubisoft based on their excellent Splinter Cell series, and felt that Ubisoft showed great appreciation to its fans by offering downloads for that game for free. Perhaps it may be more costly to create these downloads for the next generation of games, but it sure would've been nice for Ubisoft to give a little bit something back to the fans -- not necessarily for free, but not for $15. There's a better balance that could've been achieved here. Bungie did it right with the Halo 2 maps -- a couple maps for free, a few you pay a small amount for, with everything free after a few months. That balanced approach allowed Bungie/MS to be compensated for their efforts, but also maintained (and even created?) goodwill within the fan community. I don't recall too much controversy over the pricing of the Halo 2 maps, and I think there's a good reason for that (hopefully aside from poor memory).
Stewart @ Jun 23rd 2006 12:52PM
They should have offered this DLC in a different way.
Option 1: the full pack, 1200pts
Option 2: multiplayer (non co-op) maps plus the guns and camo, 600pts
Option 3: co-op maps plus the guns and camp 600pts.
killer_twinkie @ Jun 23rd 2006 1:15PM
I already paid 60 bucks for the damn game. I'm not gonna pay $15 more for that.
Mikeawesome @ Jun 23rd 2006 2:01PM
While I agree with some of the logic placed in posts here, I also have to side with the people who have reasoned that this is an entertainment value. Quite frankly, it's a game I own, and it's a game that I intend on playing for the next year, at least. $15 isn't much, I make that in less than two hours, I bet I could have made that much before the content had finished downloading. Problem, Solved.
Jason @ Jun 23rd 2006 3:15PM
I have no problem paying for premium content (as long as it's really "premium"), but this sets a dangerous precedent.
My problem is this: digital distribution is supposed to LOWER costs to everyone involved. Instead of buying an expansion pack in a store for $15, when the store takes 20% and the distributor takes a cut and the publisher takes a cut and so on and so forth... the publisher pushes it out to us for between 20 cents and a buck a gigabyte (depending on a lot of variables) directly.
That saves them a bunch of money. The idea is that we're supposed to split the savings - the publisher gets more money, AND we gamers get a discount. Instead of them getting $5 after cost of goods and all the markups for that store-bought expansion pack, they're supposed to get like $8 directly from us. We save, and they make more dough.
What is happening all too often (see Steam games) is that we're paying the same cost for the cheaper-to-distribute digital downloads and the entire difference is going to the publisher.
No thanks.
jeff @ Jun 23rd 2006 3:26PM
i agree that it is stupid to complain about the price because you dont have to buy it if you don't want to. however, the way that online match making works, it will be nearly impossible for anyone who does not have the expansion to play matches. yes, they can host games but many people would rather join a room. if they had a similar match making system like halo then i wouldn't have a problem with this update because i would chose not to buy it. however, my $60 is now useless for online play (i don't play it offline very much) and the $15 expansion is necessary for me to play the game online ever again (without going through creating my own room which i would prefer that i didn't have to to play this game now).
jimminy billybob @ Jun 23rd 2006 6:56PM
oooh look we have a nice full game lets take out a bit of it and sell it later so we can make even more money... what a scam
george @ Jun 23rd 2006 7:39PM
$15 is alot but if your really into the game then whats $15? I sold my graw copy last month however as I beat it and now play battlefield 2. If ps3 ends up offering even close to what xbox live is offering I am sure ms will combat back with cheaper pricing. However I truly dont believe sony will be able to catch up to the xbox live experience anytime soon if ever. Then remember sony is getting our money on the price of the console too. (well they aint gettin my money actually).
Francky @ Jun 23rd 2006 8:26PM
I hate that some of you guys are too slow to see the big picture. Some of you say 14$ isn't that much, and like lemmings you go out an pay. Don't you realise that this will just keep getting worst and worst. They started by charging us for FREAKING Icons ?! Now they overcharging us for maps... Yet the console is just over 6 months old !! Think about it, if people keep buying these overpiced items, they will just keep raising the price and it will get completly out of hand.
The term for this was supposed to be MICROPaymnent, how in the hell is 15$ a micropayment ?! Stop supporting this, please.
Daniel @ Jun 23rd 2006 10:42PM
Friend of mine just told me that you won't be playing GRAW online unless you get this.
He says he can't get a server because he doesn't have the new content.
Anyone confirm this?
So much for having a choice.
pj @ Jun 24th 2006 1:27AM
Was there this kind of crying for the halo 2 maps that were for sale originally but were ultimately free? Just curious if Bungie was hung out to dry like Ubisoft now...
They'll probably lower the price on this at a later date. If you can't afford it, so be it. Play what you have and take a chill pill.
Derrick @ Jun 24th 2006 1:31PM
Fuck Ubisoft and they can take there downloadable content and shove it up there ass. I don't mind buying downloadble but when the number 15 comes up it better be a ton of shit added. I am not looking at it like, "Hey it is only 15 dollars." I see it as me paying 75 dollars for it. This is not the next Halo people! And the shit is free on the PC. However, now everyone is downloading it so when you want to play it Ubisoft wont let you because they are playing downloadable content. So fuck it I am trading this piece of shit in.
Logan T. @ Jun 24th 2006 5:34PM
I can only see this being something big fans of GRAW buy. I know I wasn't as very impressed with the game when I bought it, and as only a minor fan that $15 dollar price tag seems ludicrous to me. At $5 - $8 I may have considered it, but I remember the pack like this for GR2, and it wasn't worth this amount of money.
refinedsugar @ Jun 24th 2006 7:55PM
Getting online to find an mandatory update told me the new content must be out. I'd drop 800 points in a blink of an eye for this game, but 1200 pts equals a twenty spot for me.
Not surprised to hear the DL times are atrocious either. If MS was to send out a questionnaire about what they could do better the 360 experience marketplace DL speeds would be numero uno.
gman @ Jun 24th 2006 11:25PM
#9 clazyglues is right im complete xbox fan but god damnit enough is enough.....they treating yall like crack heads 4real. Your getting nickel and dimed at every turn with this thing....yea 15 aint much but in the next few months good games are coming what happens when you get a bunch of good games....every month you can be spending almost $100 a month in points 1600=$20.00 After your game add-ons and all the "cool" arcade games. Shit! 1250(not including the games you buy-and xbox addons) a year....you do the math..we gotta stop this now!
Boheim @ Jul 8th 2006 3:50PM
For myself, the decision to buy this download was quite simple.
I bought, and continue to play GRAW for one reason: online co-op. Since developers continue be slow to understand that co-op gameplay is what so many of us want on Live, when I get a chance to add to my collection a co-op experience I grab it up.
The missions that you get are not only quite good, they exceed the game's original co-op missions in both difficulty and in map design. I challenge anyone to show me a map in the original collection that beats the Mine map on Chapter 2. It's complex, multi-layered, and forces you to attack with a mixed team of soldiers.
But for me the best part of Chapter 2 is that we finally, FINALLY get the silenced sniper rifle! Missing since GR1 on the Xbox Black, this bad boy is back, and is deadlier than ever. It also helped that they gave us the SR-25 as the silenced rifle, because that happened to be my favorite choice for my long range death dealer. And being hunted by someone who has this gun is a thrill in itself, as you won't hear the shot, but you will hear the bullets whistling past your head, and thudding into your chest.
So, if you like co-op (and in my opinion the re-lit maps also are a great deal, as they force you to change up the way you played the original), and you want some new guns, this download was definitely worth the cash.