SF2 enthusiasm starting to lag
While the overall reaction to Street Fighter 2 for Xbox Live Arcade has been positive (based on comments on this site and the average 77 score at Metacritic), there are unhappy with the game's perceived lagginess in both single player and online play. There's also alot of hostility being directed the 360 controller, which went from "best ever" to d-pad deficient over night. Hater response is typified by Tony from the VGM Daily podcast, a self-proclaimed Street Fighter fanatic, who gave the game a none out of five and proclaimed it an abject failure. Only later in his rant do we learn that he's been getting his ass kicked on Live. But even if you chalk up some of the negativity to bitterness and thumb rust, it's clear that Capcom failed to satisfy their hardcore fans, despite numerous delays. It's just that I can't blame the beat downs I suffered on lag.Does this mean that future retro ports will have to be coded from the ground up if we want superior online performace? Maybe developers should quit jerry-rigging old classics, and focus on building new homages that capture that old school flavor with modern convenience.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
PsionStorm @ Aug 5th 2006 4:14PM
I'd be surprised if the lag issues aren't anything that can be patched up. As far as the D-pad, well yeah, that's always been an issue. But I think the game plays pretty well and I've had little issues pulling off moves.
I just keep getting my ass kicked in Arcade mode, and I haven't played on Live enough to really judge how I'd fare. I suspect pretty much the same.
DeadPlasmaCell @ Aug 5th 2006 4:50PM
Maybe it's just me, but I've yet to experience any bad lag online.. it's actually quite enjoyable.. Like playing a normal computer (easier actually!) And wouldn't a SF fanatic use the analog stick?? wouldn't that be closer to the actual arcade stick?
DeadPlasmaCell @ Aug 5th 2006 4:52PM
Also, if they rebuilt the games from the ground up, that would end up costing us more to purchase it, then you'd have everyone bitching about the price of the games and inevitably, how they should have just left it alone.. They just can't win!
Supplement Reviews @ Aug 5th 2006 4:57PM
Well, people have figured out how to cheat. don't be surprised when you see people with lossless records. really ticks me off. experienced this 3 times out of 10 games i played on live today.
vid33nyc1 @ Aug 5th 2006 5:10PM
I havent had any lag but there is a slight delay when pressing the buttons and the charcter reaction on screen.If you dontt notice this something is wrong with you.
Josh @ Aug 5th 2006 5:42PM
"a lot" is two words.
/grammar police.
Much agreed Ken, I'd love to see these devs focus on some new franchises that push the hardware and live-aspect instead of just cashing in on our nostalgia.
Dirk Dorkelson @ Aug 5th 2006 5:45PM
I think you pretty much are going to have lag with any game online b/c of differences in connection speeds and the tendency for connection speeds to vary even for a single user during the course of a game. I'm no software expert, but I'd be surprised if there was a way to code around the problem that's 100% failsafe.
zachary @ Aug 5th 2006 5:50PM
I've never been a big SF fan but decided to give this one a shot. Besides the fact that I absolutely suck, I havent found the online play to be very enjoyable. I was unable to join a game without creating it myself, and then I would get completely destroyed by Honda's billion hand slap thing. I didnt notice much lag at all (or button delay). Nor did I notice a difference between the d pad or control stick.
Joe A. @ Aug 5th 2006 6:09PM
Maybe some people are just pissed because they haven't played this game in a decade.
Yeah, you're gonna experience lag. There's always been lag with every online Street Fighter game.
And that VG Daily guy calls himself a "fanatic."
If he's just gonna bitch and whine about this game, he might as well just fire up is original Xbox and play some CvS2 or Anniversary.
Besides, when I play people with lag, most opponents experience the same lag. You just have to deal instead of whining because you're getting your ass handed to you most of the time.
Jingles @ Aug 5th 2006 6:42PM
Ive been playing since it was released and I can say that I am impressed by how they dealt with the lag in this game. This is a fantastic release.
Im in Aus and 'Quick Match' places me against people in the US all the time. Data cant travel faster then the speed of light, so no matter how the game is coded im going to see lag, i would get lag with ANY game when playing someone over this distance. SF2HF plays slower but its smooth and still playable when playing someone over this distance.
I believe this is why when using the custom match feature im seeing people in the US mostly with 3 green bars in the Ping field. its still a good conenction.
Playing against someone who is closer and also in Aus gives the game a speed up. I find on the east coast of Aus a round trip for data will be about 30ms, better then the 250ms or so it would be to the states. Lag is relative mostly to distance, Capcom im sure knew this this and knew XBL is basically a global stage for their game. They made it so even when playing someone half way around the world the game is still playable. Im glad they took the extra time to do this.
Want lag free gaming and no speed loss? Play someone who is CLOSE to you, dont whinge about it, its just as bad for me.
Want to try psycho crusher or hundred hand slap me all match? Sheesh play with some honor, dont leave negative feedback saying it was unsporting when I beat you.
Good job Capcom, a great release. Shame the people who use it are gunna end up killing it.
DeadPlasmaCell @ Aug 5th 2006 7:22PM
My only question with the whole 2D fighter thing is Why the lag in the first place?? I play GRAW, PGR3 and other 3d games online usually with zero lag.. but 2d fighting games are a different story. So far SF2 has had almost no lag for me, but the last couple of ones I played on Xbox were horrible. Wut da deal?
Brett @ Aug 5th 2006 8:18PM
I was really pumped about this coming out and bought the game before even playing the demo. Definatly the last time I do that, I am not thrilled with the game at all.
KingOfGods @ Aug 5th 2006 8:30PM
Haha....he gave it a none out of five because he's garbage. I'll play him and show him that the d-pad is fine for most. I've had no problems with lag, and it plays perfect for me.
He sounds like the type of person who feels they are really good at the game and when they get their ass busted, it's got to be something wrong with the controls or lag....never their fault
SF Fan @ Aug 5th 2006 8:35PM
Works perfect for me
Saccia @ Aug 5th 2006 8:52PM
Granted, I'm a VGM Daily fan, but I have to agree that SFII has a lot of problems. I personally played against Tony the day of release on many games. As stated in the podcast, we got disconnected MANY times. We literally only actually got to complete a full game maybe 5 times out of 20. That is inexcusable for a game much like Frogger's lagginess is inexcusable especially when you can do a little workaround if you know it and it's been weeks with it still no fix.
It's not that the D-Pad is crap. The XBox360 controller is really good. It's just for a game like this that has such as well-known control scheme, the D-Pad doesn't fit well. It just wasn't designed for a game like this although it works wonderful for other games. Add to that the sensitivity of control in the game and you can see why the D-Pad can be a little frustrating. Take another listen Ken. He says all of this in the review after slamming the game in the first few minutes.
Adam @ Aug 5th 2006 9:36PM
Oh STFU. The game has no lag.. if you have a good Internet connection! Holy shit, when will these fucken morons learn their connection is dogshit, and the game is just fine?
ZeroCorpse @ Aug 5th 2006 11:54PM
Who uses the D-Pad for Street Fighter 2, anyway? That's IDIOTIC. Street Fighter has always had a JOYSTICK in the arcade, and you have a little joystick on your 360 controller. I have no problem pulling off moves on the analog stick.
If you use the D-Pad for fighting games, you're obviously a kid who was duped into thinking you need a D-Pad by later games, such as console-bound versions of Dead or Alive or Virtua Fighter, which have insane combos that need that up-up-down-up type of control. Street Fighter is fluid and smooth, not jerky. It wasn't made with consoles in mind.
Use the stick, dumbass. The D-Pad is not used for real fighting games.
Dirk Dorkelson @ Aug 6th 2006 12:03AM
"Oh STFU. The game has no lag.. if you have a good Internet connection! Holy shit, when will these fucken morons learn their connection is dogshit, and the game is just fine?"
Uh, it's called "lag" because it doesn't matter if you have a great connection. You can have a blazing fast connection and still get lag if the person you're playing with has a different connection speed.
Mean_Nishka @ Aug 6th 2006 12:33AM
I was a casual SF2 player back in the 90's, played it in the arcade a bit and on the SuperNES as well.
I don't see what all the fuss is about.. I'm using the analog stick and can actually pull off moves where I couldn't do them reliably with the SNES controller in the past. And as far as lag goes, I have yet to have a multiplayer match where I experienced any kind of noticable lag.
I agree with others on here that nostalgia is making this game better than it really was. Would it have been nice to see some HD enhanced graphics? Sure.. But in the end I felt the 800 points for the game was very reasonable and $10 well spent.
My .02.
Jingles @ Aug 6th 2006 12:55AM
"Uh, it's called "lag" because it doesn't matter if you have a great connection. You can have a blazing fast connection and still get lag if the person you're playing with has a different connection speed."
no, not connection speed.
lag is caused by latency, or the time it takes for the data to travel from one person to another.
data cannot travel faaster than the speed of light. the shorter the distance (by wire) between the two players the less lag (barring any actual conenction problems, so in an ideal situation.)
SF2HF has relaxed ristrictions on what with would consider a bad latency connection 'ping', so when you connect to someone with 3-4 green bars, they could still be half way across the globe, therefore you WILL see a slow down to the game. if your seeing lag spikes/disconnections then its most probably a problem with either payers connection.
Michael Zoran @ Aug 6th 2006 1:41AM
Here are some interesting facts I have observed about Street Fighter 2 Hyper Fighting:
1. The default speed setting is fairly fast, but I got used to it quickly. When I joined a match online, the person who created the custom match did so at a slower speed. Initially, I thought this was lag because the game played so much more slowly. However, I quickly realized that the user who created that match deliberately set the speed level at a slower rate. Maybe this is why gamers feel that there are lag problems.
2. I agree that I thought the Xbox 360 had the best controller ever. However, there is one thing that deeply conserns me. MICROSOFT, PLEASE LISTEN: the D-pad is placed on a slight angle that is fine for just about ever sort of move except a Dragon Punch when your character is facing to the left (where you start as Player-2). When you are facing the left and you try to quickly press f, d, df, f, it will result in your character jumping towards the opponent (as if you meant to push diagonally uf), rather than doing a dragon punch. This is something that was not expected with the Xbox 360 controller.
3. The solution to the problem is forget about the 8-way D-pad currently in use. Instead, use a D-pad similar to the Dreamcast. The Dreamcast D-pad was far superior to the Playstation D-pad. For complex motions such as the dragon punch or a spinning piledriver in SF2, the Xbox 360 D-pad has a high chance of goofing up accidentally.
4. Microsoft, you need to release a high-quality joystick. The best joystick ever made was the Sega Saturn on. I recommend releasing a joystick that allows consumers to unscrew the joystick and place either a standard stick or a ball on the top.
rockmonaco @ Aug 6th 2006 5:31AM
The lag isn't too bad, but what really pisses me off is with lag it makes it alot harder to get out of the cheap moves people do with E. Honda and Chun Li, plus I keep playing retards who disconnect when I'm just about to beat them in ranked play. They really need to do something about that cause it's just ridiculous at this point.
Marcelo Vega @ Aug 6th 2006 8:46AM
Street Fighter 2 plays perfect on my 360, online and offline...I´ve had no problem with the controller (using both the D-pad and analog).
There´s too much complaining about things that I haven´t experienced: I´ve seen no lag at all in any mode and I don´t have any problem controlling the characters...and I´ve never been a great SF2 player back in the day.
Xfan @ Aug 6th 2006 6:27PM
The fault with this game is the Xbox 360 controller. If you played the game in the arcade you have a joystick and buttons assembled logically for punching and kicking.
On the 360 controller, this means splitting some of the functions between the four buttons the controller and some of the functions on the trigger/shoulder buttons. It's a little odd and it's what I didn't like immediately. And after playing the demo, I knew I wouldn't buy this game without a joystick and six/eight buttons. And even though I tried to find one, I've been unsuccessful. This should have been released with a 'fighting' controller. Without it, I couldn't recommend this game.
tiremfej @ Aug 6th 2006 11:27PM
I love the game, I'm glad I DL'ed it. It brings back so many memories of me kicking ass with Blanka, it's like I never stopped playing...just like riding a bike. After 13 years I can still remember the stinking moves!
codemule @ Aug 7th 2006 3:34AM
The game has been absolutely perfect for me. Not a bit of lag.
Just create your own game every time, pick a green ping opponent and go. Not everyone has their routers configured correctly or decent connections (note: high bandwidth does NOT necessarily provide a low latency connection).
Mr BoomStick XL @ Aug 7th 2006 8:33AM
Well here the thing.....Games GREAT, some lag issues(can be patched!!), D-Pad issues(Not as Easy to fix!!) I hope someone from MS is reading this....Make a retro type controller for XBLA!!! It makes perfect sense, plus the MOST important thing YOu (MS) can make some money on a perif. that EVERYONE will buy!!! Go back to the begining and make a Saturn Type controller(The BEST D-Pad EVER!!)
Thomas Crymes @ Aug 7th 2006 9:14AM
"My only question with the whole 2D fighter thing is Why the lag in the first place?? I play GRAW, PGR3 and other 3d games online usually with zero lag.. but 2d fighting games are a different story. Wut da deal?"
This is rather simple (I think). GRAW, PGR3, et al use tricks to generate the appearance of smooth gameplay. In PGR3, the game updates the other drivers when it can, but the appearance of the other drivers aren't always where they actually are at that exact second.
In fighting games, it is important for the game to be in sync at every second because moves are made within a fraction of a second that are crucial to the game as a whole.
As long as split-second manuevering is critical to a game and it takes longer than a split second to send and recieve packets over the internet, there will be lag. There is no escaping it.
As for the D-Pad, other people have hinted that maybe, just maybe the analog stick is a better method of control than the D-Pad. I know that goes against common thinking, but that doesn't make it wrong.
It is obvious that 1 controller can't be all things to all people. The D-Pad is rarely used anymore aside from weapons selection or some quick-key commands.
If a company was smart they'd produce an arade stick just for XBLA, and make some money off it it (assuming the market is larger than rabid fans.)
N3rdB0y @ Aug 7th 2006 12:01PM
I have been playing SFII since the original in 1991. Most of you weren't even born yet! I even have a full SFII CE and original arcade cabinet in my garage.
When this came out, I immediately purchased without trying it first.
Yes, the D-Pad is most horrible control ever designed. That is why i just use the joystick. I've only had a few issues, but I've had the same issues with my arcade cabinet. NOTHING'S PERFECT.
As far as the 'cheap' moves... i.e. using E.Honda's slap move, or M. Bison's flaming torpedo... there are NO CHEAP MOVES. You just suck too bad to get out of it. Stop whining and learn how to play. Each character has their strengths and weaknesses.
Congrats on a job well done, Capcom.