Our Lumines Live! micro-rant
by Richard Mitchell 
{ Oct 19th 2006 at 3:35PM }
We know, it seems like all the news is about Lumines lately. It'll subside, we promise. Until then, however, we have to put in our two cents on a hot topic. No doubt you've read some of the reports about Lumines Live! and it's evil downloadable content. Either that, or you've discovered it yourself after clearing one round of Vs. CPU mode. We all knew that there was an "Advance" pack coming, but if you were under the impression that the "Advance" pack would make your game complete, you're wrong. Three times wrong. We think it's time for a rant.To be fair to Q? Enertainment, we knew this was coming, sort of. A few months ago, we ran a story that Lumines would charge for versus play. This was later cleared up (by Ross Erickson, no less). It's a little shady though. It's true, you don't have to pay to play versus over Live, but you do have to purchase an expansion pack if you want to play versus a computer (just happens to be my favorite mode of play). Now, Ken ferreted out two of these packs -- the "Puzzle/Mission" pack (400 points) and "Vs. CPU" (300 points) pack -- in August. What we didn't know about then was the "Advance" pack that adds new skins. If the pricing Ken found in August is true, then these three packs will run you 1300 points, -- dragging the game up to 2500 (US $31.24). And, for all we know, that's not even the "complete" game. What about the music videos? According to Xbox.com, these will come in an "Artist" pack.
What we're left with is an Arcade game that basically has a retail price. Sure, you could argue that you don't have to pay for parts of the game you don't want, but it stinks to us. Not everybody likes the battle rifle in Halo 2, but it doesn't cost extra. Would it be better if Lumines Live! and all its packs were released as a $40.00 retail game, or would people pick up the box and decide that it didn't look "next gen"? We're all used to relatively cheap Arcade games; is that what makes Lumines sting so badly? Give us your opinion in the comments.
The excellent Gears of War Lumines avatar was made by 360 Fanboy reader, Josh.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
AZ I BORICUA @ Oct 19th 2006 3:53PM
THESE PRICES ARE RIDICULOUS!!!!! DONT KNOW IF YOU GUYS REMEMBER THE TRUE.COM "FREE 1600 POINTS DEAL" YEAH WELL I JUST GOT MY POINTS THE OTHER DAY AND I LOVE LUMINES. GUESS WHAT IM NOT GETTING IT. ID MUCH RATHER PLAY IT ON MY PSP. IM NOT GONNA PAY ALL THIS MONEY. IMAGINE HOW MUCH THE MUSIC PACKS ARE GONNA BE. ANOTHER $12.50? F**K LUMINES!!!!! GOOD GAME SH!T PRICE!!
360us Maxuimus @ Oct 19th 2006 3:54PM
Am I the only person on the planet who doesn't give a crap about this stupid game?
AZ I BORICUA @ Oct 19th 2006 3:57PM
THIS POST IS NO LONGER A MICRO-RANT, PLEASE CHANGE TITTLE TO MEGA-RANT. EVERYONE PLEASE EXPRESS YOUR ANGER HERE.
KineticOnline @ Oct 19th 2006 4:05PM
Lumines Live! = Rip off , end of story.
MS should be refunding any points spent on Lumines so far and then drop it from the marketplace.
firerock @ Oct 19th 2006 5:46PM
Why the anger? Not everyone is interested in the complete game. Maybe some gamer just want the straight up single player mode and he/she is happy to pay only $10 for it then the full game price. Sure, it's very sneaky that the company is trying to charge gamers extra dollars here and there, but you have the choice to not purchase the bonus/extras. BTW, what's the big fuss about the game, it's alright, not earth shattering!
Jeff @ Oct 21st 2006 3:02PM
Well I am addicted as hell to Lumines. I love it. This isn't your average Arcade game. It's a full blown game, always was a full blown game. It cost 40.00 bucks for the Psp. Why did everyone think we'd get it cheaper? Because it's been out for a year? What about GTA:SA for xbox? It came out and almost the same price it did for PS2. Same with other ports. We all knew that retail sized games would be coming to Arcade, not just classics from the 80's and 90's. Those SHOULD be 5-10 bucks. Not Lumines or other original properties. Get over it. You dont like it, don't buy it.
BklynKid @ Oct 19th 2006 4:14PM
I said it before and I'll say it again: VOTE WITH YOUR WALLETS!
If you don't like the price and think that they should go fuck themselves then don't buy the game (like me)! If you think it's ok to charge this kind of money and believe it should be done more often by other developers as well then by all means buy the game. Nuf said!
Dracula Jones @ Oct 19th 2006 4:14PM
Am I the only one who doesn't see anything wrong with this?
Lumines is a high profile release. All total, it costs approximately as much as the PSP version and it is enhanced with 720p.
Is it because it's an XBLA game that people are getting all freaked out? If that's the case, would it still be overpriced if you bought it at retail for around the same price?
Player1 @ Oct 19th 2006 4:16PM
I'm glad the artists pack cost extra. I was not going to buy this if I had Madonna, Black Eyed Peas, and other crap on it.
Bennyishere @ Oct 19th 2006 4:35PM
I might just get it, because I loved the trial and I'm filthy rich! I won't be downloading the Artist pack if it'll just have ugly-ass Madonna, though...
ahamsandwich @ Oct 19th 2006 4:31PM
its a shame. lumines had the potential to be a blockbuster live arcade game if it launched at a competivie price.
music_maniac1965 @ Oct 19th 2006 4:31PM
i have this game for the psp allready, and i dont indend to get this. not that its on live arcade downloads, but on the psp, i got a nice cover, manual, and umd. on the 360 i get the download. if my hd suddenly would crash, and after whatever amount of years ms deside to take this game from arcade downloads because they need the space for newer games, i just bought a game i can not play annymore. for a small fee, i dont mind the risk. but for full price, i'd rather have it on a 360 dvd rom.
Chappy @ Oct 19th 2006 4:37PM
The Lumines pricing scam is an insult. Fotunately I knew that it was coming (probably from reading this site) so I didn't bother paying for the demo. I do feel sorry for the poeple that did; they simply got ripped off. It's a simple for me, I won't buy the game, and I won't buy any other Live 'arcade' games that follow a similar pricing model. I especially won't do any business with Q Entertainment in the future, they obviously have no regard for their customers.
I do feel bad for Microsoft however, because they will bear the brunt of the (quite justified) complaints that people will have. I think most marketplace shoppers believe the Microsoft is developing the game, setting the price and keeping the money, but the reality is that Q Entertainment is to blame. Microsoft's place in the chain is more like Amazon.com; providing the storefront and handling the transaction but not creating the product or setting the price.
The worst part is that a company that treats its customers like this (Q Entertainment) won't do anything to alleviate the situation. Perhaps Microsoft can apply some pressure, but I don't expect anything to come of the complaints. Hopefully this scam won't be very successful; hurting Q Entertainment in the wallet is probably the only way to keep them (and others) from trying this crap again.
ymmv @ Oct 19th 2006 4:37PM
I was under the impression that Lumines Live was split up in two packs but the addon pack would only contain extra skins and music. The base game would be feature complete and have the full experience. That was what I expected when I bought the game, but when I started playing the different game modes I found that I had bought only a glorified demo for my 1200 MS points. It only takes a few minutes of play to get to the end of the included puzzles, missions and vs cpu modes and then you get the dread "buy the expansion pack if you want to play more". This was certainly not what I expected from a full price live arcade title :-(
If I pay full price for a title, I want the DVD.
botdeluxe @ Oct 19th 2006 4:44PM
I got swindled with their bait and switch... full game my ass!
Chappy @ Oct 19th 2006 4:48PM
Oh, and just to be clear, if this was a $40 retail game that included all the content, I'd be quite happy and I might consider it. If it was a $40 'retail game delivered via the arcade' that included all the content, I'd also be quite happy and I might consider it.
My problem with this is that they're selling one third of the game for for twenty bucks *as if it were the whole game*. Only after you pony up are you informed that there are other parts that cost an additional ten bucks each, and at least one of them is required just to finish the damn game you already bought. It's decitful, and I hope no one does any business with them now or in the future (I certainly won't).
asurroca @ Oct 19th 2006 4:51PM
I thought we were told that it would be the most expensive XBLA game yet... ages ago. So, why is everyone freaking out?
I tried the demo, didn't care for it, and moved on.
PopCap Games' Bejewled 2 and Zuma are $20 for PC via their own website, but only $10 on XBLA. And NinjaBee's Outpost Kaloki X is cheaper than the $20 PC version despite being a beefed up version.
What I'm getting at is, I think we've been getting XBLA games at bargain prices, and that's what makes the Lumines Live! price seem so steep.
On the flipside, it's the first "real" (as in, "available at major retailers") game on XBLA, and a good test of the XBLA distribution model. If those of you who like Lumines Live! vote with your wallets and buy it, it would be a large step toward legitimizing XBLA as a distribution method for the big-name developers.
Shibmaster75 @ Oct 19th 2006 5:01PM
The most horrific part of the whole thing, is that somewhere deep down I thought the whole scare of bait and switch pricing was just a ploy to hype the game up. How wrong was I. I purchased the game yesterday, my wife played it for the first time and loved it, which I thank god for do to the fact she is the one that thinks the 360 was bought for her, to play all the arcade games.hahahah. Yet when she tried the other modes and then inquired "O.K. I like it you can go ahead and get the full game, and delete this demo", I said, "Honey, don't be silly you never delete the demo it just turns into the full version when you buy it and second this is the full version." she uttered these words of scorn, "You Fanboys are stupid asses, paying all this money for crap that used to be given to you, for your loyal use of product and free advertising for them. You guys are a bunch of sheep." and then she laughed at me and said, "Hows your horse armor honey?"
DA360 @ Oct 19th 2006 6:46PM
Well, the download packs are understandable in two fronts. One - its a work around of the 50MB Xbox Live Arcade file size limit. Also, two - it makes it on level with cost of the PSP version ($40), which is the SAME EXACT game. Apparently Q Entertainment didn't want the same exact game going for like $20-30 cheaper.
But personally, if they wanted to do all of this, they should of released it as a retail, pressed-on-disc, game instead of a Live Arcade title. This might also make Microsoft reconsider the Live Arcade size limit and the point cost values and whatnot. I am sure if they decided to put the 100GB HDD on the Platinum and the 20GB HDD on the core, they could very easily get rid of the limit because now Core console buyers won't be limited by a memory unit.
Shafnitz @ Oct 19th 2006 6:49PM
I agree that they are nickel and diming us. They really should have made the prices more competitive. I've been interested in the game for a while and really like the demo I played of it last night. If they wanted to split it up into "packs" the initial purchase shouldn't be as high as it is. Perhaps 800 points for the "full game" and 200 points for each add on pack seems much more reasonable to me. I got one of the free 1600 point cards from True.com as well, and I'm debating on purchasing this one... I think Q? made a big mistake.
taraba @ Oct 19th 2006 7:06PM
"One - its a work around of the 50MB Xbox Live Arcade file size limit."
But should they care about fitting this on the MU? Can't we just make one whole game for $30 and then say "HDD required" in the text of the game? A core owner can buy the HDD if they need to. If I need to download 2 chunks of 50MB and put them on MUs (one to hold the core and one to hold some of the addon pack) that will cost $80 ($40 per MU), then I'd be better off buying the HDD for another $20 ($100 for HDD). It's a bad $/byte ratio to buy MUs. Let's stop trying to accomodate people that don't have a HDD.
mietha CAG @ Oct 20th 2006 2:38AM
Very deceptive business practice. Even though I want the game, it is far overpriced, and there is no way I can support this type of behavior. Worst of all, this comes one day after the Tiger Woods BS. I really hope this is not an omen of things to come. I love my 360, but if they keep doing crap like this, marketplace will die, and that will severely hurt them. Please don't support crap like this. You are only hurting yourselves and everyone else. If it doesn't sell well, they might consider selling the COMPLETE game for $20 or so. Doing it is bad enough. Not telling you they are doing it before you give them your $15 is unforgivable.
harma41 @ Oct 19th 2006 7:22PM
Even at 1200 points, it is not even arcade pricing worthy. And the only way that MS and Q? will learn, is by showing your lack of support for the full game purchase. What a rip-off!
xboxer @ Oct 19th 2006 9:01PM
I am most ticked off at the lack of clarity around what I was getting for 1200 points. To find that I couldn't do vs CPU and was 'done' after only 10 or so skins (most being rehashed psp skins) makes this a total joke of a 'full' version. I thought I'd at least get a few of the 'new' video skins...
This is an expensive trial at best. I'll quit at 1200 and buy retail on for psp or ps2 (and ultimaely spend more in the process). This experience has made me very bitter.
Moomintroll @ Oct 20th 2006 4:22AM
I'm not bothered about the total price - this is a retail-quality game, and it's a great one too, and I'd like to see more games like this become available via XBLA.
I'm not bothered about the way the game is broken up either really - in theory it means people don't have to pay for the parts they don't want to play... but for that theory to truly work you should be able to start with just the shell (i.e. the menu system), and then just pick and choose which parts you want to pay for - some people may want vs CPU instead of challenge mode.
However, I do believe what they've done is wrong, because they should have been more honest about the whole thing, with a big red warning sign on the download page. I was still happy to pay for it though, knowing full well what the situation was.
Rodec @ Oct 20th 2006 8:45AM
I have over a 50% demo-to-buy-ratio. I voted with my wallet. !No Lumines!
SinistarX @ Oct 20th 2006 11:28AM
Let's be sure to keep our pricing up to date, shall we?
Yes, Lumines for the PSP launched at $40. Currently, it is available for $20. Lumines II (PSP) and Lumines Plus (PS2) are slated at $30 each.
So why exactly should a full featured Lumines on Live be above $30?
But you know, it's not even the price that upsets me. It's the fact that it comes in so many pieces. I want one complete, base game when I purchased a Live title, one where all of the menu options work and I NEVER see "Insert coin to continue" type messages prompting me to purchase add-on packs that are not yet available. Give me the full game in one shot, please.
If the 50MB limit is the big problem, release it on DVD at retail. People bought Lumines for the PSP, they'll buy it for the 360. Though I have to say that the 50MB limit is one purely imposed by Microsoft - it isn't as though we don't reguarly download demos in excess of 1GB in size. Live can handle the file size, but Microsoft has this crazy idea that they have to stick to mem card sizes since they were daft enough to not ship the hard drive with both SKUs.
Big question, though, is if you have to use memory cards and you purchase all of the Lumines packs, does Lumines allow you to read from two separate cards at the same time? One to hold the base game, another to hold your add-ons? If not, then the whole technical reason for splitting is bogus.