Gates: PS3 will never have graphics advantage
Speaking with journalist and Xbox guru, Dean Takahashi, Bill Gates offered several jabs to both Sony and Nintendo in the wake of CES. Speaking on Nintendo, Gates expressed concern that the novelty of Wii could wear off without good graphics to go with it, and that he still considered Sony to be MS' biggest competitor (O RLY?). Regarding the PS3, Gates notes that the 360 has the advantage in every area. According to Gates, the 360 has good games, is easier to program, and is cheaper to produce. Because of the 360's head start, it also has the advantage of undergoing cost reduction at a much faster rate than the PS3 with its more costly components. Gates also stated that the PS3 has no advantage in terms of graphics and that it never will. In his words, Sony "burned a year" trying to get graphics out of the Cell processor, only to have Nvidia provide a chip at the last minute. Add to this the fact that the PS3 has no unified memory and that programmers have had longer to learn the intricacies of the 360 hardware, and the PS3 is caught in a cyclical game of catch-up.
Finally, Gates managed to squeeze in one more denial of a larger 360 hard drive on the horizon. When asked about the need for more space -- especially with IPTV and DVR functions on the way -- Gates responded that much IPTV data is stored on servers and storage is unnecessary. To wit: "We don't have to change the Xbox 360 at all." Uh huh, and 640 kilobytes is all we'll ever need, right?
[Via 1UP]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Russel @ Jan 11th 2007 4:31PM
No offense, but Gates claims to have never said the 640K quote. I can see the 360 allowing the use of external hard drives to store data, but I'm not sure a larger hard drive SKU will come out only because of MS not wanting to lose face and look as if they underspecified the machine.
MachRc @ Jan 11th 2007 4:37PM
Ps3 never had the graphics advantage during its launch like the original xbox had over the ps2. When the original seXbox hit the stores, from day one it was superior and better than the ps2 visually ( and you can add on- cd rips, xbox live,detachable cords:P etc).
Too bad from day one ps3 has been nothing but a disapointment.
homer simpson @ Jan 11th 2007 4:46PM
PSPoop, poop poop poop... ooooo... is that a doughnut?
Kev @ Jan 11th 2007 4:46PM
Gates didn't say the line about 640K but he did say this:
"I've said some stupid things and some wrong things, but not that. No one involved in computers would ever say that a certain amount of memory is enough for all time..."
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Bill_Gates
Francky @ Jan 11th 2007 4:53PM
You people realize that by saying that a bigger hard drive isn't necessary, as the IPTV media will be on a "server", he means that we will need a IPTV PVR, and the xbox will be nothing more than a media extender, kinda like it can do with Media Center now.
So Basically, all this "XBOX can do IPTV" was all BULLSHIT from the start.
Why in god's name would I want to use the XBOX to control my PVR, if I have it sitting next to it ?! It could be practical if I had the PVR in another room, but this was very misleading and stupid on their part. Since we assumed we could save up on having to buy a damn PVR.
As for the drive, at least gives us the option to remove the 7 gigs of crap that placed on it. I bought a 20 gig drive, not 13..
Assholes
Mister2zx3 @ Jan 11th 2007 5:11PM
This is beyond ridiculous at this point. 360 owners *NEED* a bigger HDD, *WANT* one, and are constantly and repeatedly asking for it, and yet they PR nonsense LIE is that, if there is enough demand, it will get done. Well there is demand and they keep the PR spin coming.
The 13 GB of usable space IS NOT adequate. a larger optional drive is being asked for, don't continue to dismiss and lie to everyone. Why is this being shot down? How much demand is enough?
Richard Mitchell @ Jan 11th 2007 5:12PM
"No offense, but Gates claims to have never said the 640K quote."
Huh. You learn something new every day. It's still funny, though :)
Ken Stone @ Jan 11th 2007 5:14PM
I bet they want to push something like the Windows Home Server and have the 360 store its data there instead of on the Xbox itself. I guess that would be cool if the Xbox could just use an external (not directly connected) storage location for everything.
KineticOnline @ Jan 11th 2007 5:15PM
If they arnt going to release a bigger hard drive then the least they can do if remove the fix partition sizing on the hard drives, then we would be able to put in whatever size of 2.5" hdd we wanted
subsonicwave @ Jan 11th 2007 5:17PM
i love everything about my 360, but there is one thing puzzling me about this HDD size and whether they will provide us with a bigger one. All our gamesaves are on this 20 gig drive. now i may be stupid but i can see a huge problem if they released a bigger drive. we'll all have to transfer this data to the new drive. and at present i think only 3rd party companies produce such hardware and software to do this. This is where i think they have a major problem. can we all be bothered to go through this transfer process. obviously the hardcore gamer would, but for the people who do not play so much can't see them being too happy, maybe i'm wrong.
DarkBlades @ Jan 11th 2007 5:29PM
360 is my favorite console. But in all Honesty, the 360 doesnt need gates to talk for it, its already talking for its self.
J.Goodwin @ Jan 11th 2007 5:29PM
That 7 gigs is reserved for system files and cache. A large amount of that is reserved for Xbox compatibility, since the Xbox had a minimum spec hard drive in every box.
You get it back, you lose data caching and Xbox backward compatibility. Personally, I think it's a fair trade.
And part of that 20 gigs is phantom anyway (drive sizes are typically advertised in gigabytes not gibibytes.) When you start looking at the drive from the computer's perspective, you don't have 20 gigabytes, you have 18.6 gibibytes. So you're "missing" 6.4 gigs, part of which is also used up by the file system itself rather than files.
For an example of this effect, I recently bought a couple of "320 gigabyte" hard drives. When you format them, the system reports that they are actually 298 gigabytes (what technical people have started calling gibibytes because it's too damn confusing to use both gigabyte for both decimal and binary counting of file systems).
SeanP @ Jan 11th 2007 5:29PM
Thank god I've already replace my Xbox360 hard drive with 80Gb one ; It's just too easy, a little Google and that was done !
The original one ? gone on Ebay ...
JRock3x8 - 2o2p @ Jan 11th 2007 5:30PM
Where are the sony fanboys? this is very disappointing :>
J.Goodwin @ Jan 11th 2007 5:33PM
5.4 because I'm an idiot.
Scott Krueger @ Jan 11th 2007 5:36PM
Gates is the Luckiest Idiot in the World.
He Illegally Marketed Windows which used to cost $49. Now that is the Only viable system he Charges over $200.
Never owned a "Good" ATI Chipset, myself.
Every Nvidia Card I got was ALWAYS Better.
Unified Memory does not make it easier to Program for. Just because his Idiot Programmers can't figure out how to make a Stable anything.
The Vista catch Phrase should be the Same for the last releases of Windows "Have You Rebooted your Computer Today?"
If the 360 is so easy to program for then why does mine Lock up from time to time on certain games???
But of course Bill Gates thinks this, He owns the Xbox after all. He would say anything true or not to discredit his competition whether it is Sony or Nintendo or Sega or IBM, etc.
LMAO @ Jan 11th 2007 5:39PM
Be prepare to upgrade to Vista if you want IPTV, extender, and Live anywhere feature. Which also means be prepare to update those Athlon 64 processors you bought 3 years ago that was suppose to be future proof, along with the extinct AGP slots. So much for putting a 64-bit processor to good use before it is outdated.
It's pretty pathetic that to get the whole package with the 360, you basically need a Vista computer. Who didn't see this coming?
movieman200x @ Jan 11th 2007 5:40PM
I'm curious about his statement that Sony tried to do graphics with the cell and had nvidia do it at the last minute. I think that's a load of garbage, since I was at E3 2005 when the system was unveiled and they said it was using nvidia from the get-go.
Now, I'm an Xbox360 owner/supporter all the way, but he really needs to think about what he says before he spouts off things that make him seem naive.
digiNic @ Jan 11th 2007 5:46PM
It must be the crack. again.
aragorn @ Jan 11th 2007 5:53PM
Gates statement in regards to the PS3 I think is a half truth. Knowing Sony, the PS3 is going to be like the PS2: it'll be capable of absolutely AMAZING graphics... but only so many companies will have the funds, the time, and the know how to figure out how to fully impliment it in a game.
Toner Refill Kits @ Jan 11th 2007 6:14PM
I have neither right now and must say the game output for the xbox is really starting to sway my decision. Don't think I would ever pay for online access through a console set.. but I'm slow to change. If they had something similar to WOW I would consider it.
Brian @ Jan 11th 2007 6:16PM
True, nVidia was announced at E3 2k5, but nVidia hadn't put together the graphics hardware at that point. All those videos were pre-rendered CGI... and they blatently lied about the way games were going to look!
This is nothing short of lying to their fans:
http://digitalbattle.com/2006/12/02/motorstorm-e3-video-vs-actual-gameplay/
PS3's superiority over the 360 is limited only to the Blu-Ray storage for video games... and that makes VERY LITTLE difference, considering multiple discs are hardly a deciding factor between consoles, for most (non-crippled) users. :p
tacklebox @ Jan 11th 2007 6:22PM
I download every demo that comes out, I have a bunch of XBLA games and I have hundreds of saves from xbox and 360 games. I have yet to fill the 360's hard drive.
I know kids today are lazy and parents dont teach their kids common sense, but here's an idea. Clean out what you dont need!!
aragorn @ Jan 11th 2007 6:30PM
tacklebox: true... but that's to be expected... I mean... remember the touched up screen shots of the origional halo?
Maybe sony went to extremes, but seriously... that kinda BS is par for the course.
Christopher Williams @ Jan 11th 2007 6:56PM
@Tacklebox
Try downloading a couple of 720p HD television shows or one of those fancy HD movies from the Xbox Live Marketplace and get back to me about having enough space.
Game saves don't take that much space, digital media does.
I was forced to delete 2 television shows that I bought and paid for (and had every intention of keeping) because they were taking nearly 5 gigs of room, and I could rent a movie that I wanted to see.
We need the option of at least 100 GB drives, especially if they're really going to continue to push HD quality digital media on XBL
Azerael @ Jan 11th 2007 8:05PM
So when's Microsoft going to make a deal with Australian ISPs so that Xbox Live doesn't use up our bandwidth?
Fucking primitive bandwidth caps. 2 HD movies would wipe out my internet for a month =\. Cavemen had better internet than we do.
Duscrom @ Jan 11th 2007 9:11PM
Well, let me tell you from experince with a version of IPTV. Comcast INDEMAND sounds to be very similar... and in that case, your content is NOT saved to your PVR. The downside is there is a delay on your button presses, but the ability to rewind and pause, is actually done remotely, not locally.
So No he isn't talking about Vista or a seperate IN HOME device being needed.
VampireHunter Z @ Jan 11th 2007 9:48PM
I was thinking the exact same thing (as Gates) that IPTV does not need a HDD to do DVR. It's just like streaming video from the net. When you click record on a program you are essentially just bookmarking that program. It's stored on the providers server so you can access it at anytime. In theory you should be able to go into the guide and scroll back to stuff thats already aired and watch them.
cergeio @ Jan 11th 2007 10:20PM
I hate how people cast aside Nintendo all together when in fact looking at the money market, Nintendo is seriously tearing Sony and Microsoft a new one, the numbers speak for themselves:
http://kotaku.com/gaming/npd/npd-and-the--nextgen-launch-winner-is-228191.php
Oskar @ Jan 11th 2007 11:17PM
Basic math tells me there will hardly be any real difference in what you'll pay for either rig, the only difference will be what(services, accessory*) you pay for not the amount of cash.
*example: hd-dvd.
Marc @ Jan 11th 2007 11:57PM
Gates was commenting on how the most recent nvidia chip is newer than the one they originally planned on and it saved their asses to make the games meet the graphics level they are at now.
tack @ Jan 11th 2007 11:57PM
it will take 120 dutchmen for sony to create a game that does better graphics.
Roger Strong @ Jan 12th 2007 12:31AM
Bill Gates doesn't want a larger hard drive in the XBox, because he wants you to buy the alternatives.
One is a Media Center Edition PC, which can stream music, video, radio etc. to the XBox. That's what I use. It's cool, but needs to support more video codecs.
The other is the new home server just announced. It's aimed at backing up and streaming media to other PCs and XBoxes.
Murc @ Jan 12th 2007 1:27AM
Sean P said: "13. Thank god I've already replace my Xbox360 hard drive with 80Gb one ; It's just too easy, a little Google and that was done !
The original one ? gone on Ebay ..."
You sir, are a bad lier.
every one knows that MS uses a proprietary hard drive on teh 360, so you cant swap it with a 200 gig one. You can use a USB port for an external HDD, but you cant store game saves or anything you download from the market place on it...you can only use it for pics, videos, music, etc.
matjet @ Jan 12th 2007 2:05AM
lies can be propagated to try and cover the truth, but everyone still knows none-the-less, that bill gates is in fact the one whom claimed the 640k speach, in an attempt to further his marketing.
ill trooper @ Jan 12th 2007 5:28AM
Wow. I have all three new systems, and while I love my 360, and I do feel it's the best system right now, the graphics on the PS3's MotorStorm are amazing (friends have the Japanese import, no online til U.S. release so I'm on hold)... I think it's the best I've seen this gen, it looks as good as the best games I've had on my PC, and I've played through Gears of War, etc. The PS3 is not the sick weakling Gates is talking about.
It's difficult to pinpoint, I'm not saying the 360 couldn't do it... It might simply be the hard work of the developer, but MotorStorm is excellent looking - complex models, well-done textures, no course edges on any of the far-off polygon shapes throwing the depth perception off (as opposed to the trees and shrubs in the Tiger Woods games), fluid framerate, no pop-up in the distance, none of the 360 'gloss' (perfect dark zero/gears of war)... People can go on and on about some thng they saw on Ars saying it's not possible, pipelines, throughput, video cards, nimble 360 vs. Cell, etc.. but the game looks and plays great.
I'm posting this not to incite a riot - I mean really, I know the name of the website we're on, I'm here too - but rather to put out there that I really take all these CEO dudes' statements with a grain of salt. Packet of salt. Too much salt. OF COURSE Bill Gates is gonna say something like this - it's his product.
epobirs @ Jan 12th 2007 5:49AM
#18
Apparently you weren't paying attention to Sony's presentation at the previous E3. At the time there was nothing remotely like an actual PS3 in existence. Look up the the videos and you'll see they ran two sets of demos. One group, which included the traditional rubber duck-bathtub theme, was run on the Cell processor. The other group were run on prototype Nvidia 7x00 series hardware on a PC.
The original concept for the PS3 was heavily driven by the idea that Cell chips would easily work in groups to form highly scalable systems. Sony and IBM have failed to explain why this should be the case where decades of supercomputer work has failed to achieve this. (Sony spouted fantasy scenarios in which other devices in your home containing Cell chips would lend their processing power to the PS3 if they had no other tasks. Leaving aside the incredible level of latency this would introduce, just the scaling would be a nightmare for developers.) At last report, the multiprocessor functionality of the Cell was scarcely better than x86 processors.
That didn't matter much because it was beoming apparent that it would be impossible to produce a PS3 containing multiple Cell processors. Yields were abysmal, making costs very high and supply very low. A major factor in the short supply of the Xbox 360 at launch was that they chose (largely after an early demo demonstrating how much more Unreal Engine 3 could do given more RAM) to go with 512MB fairly late in the product cycle and the then sole supplier of the GDDR3 memory could meet the doubled demand. Sony would have ben facing the same supply isssue but quadrupled instead of doubled, and with extremely costly chips to add insult to injury.
This is when they gave up on the idea ofa box of Cells that developers would allocate a they saw fit. A dedicated GPU would be needed. There were only two candidates for this role, ATI and Nvidia. Thus an E3 presentation in which the Cell and RSX were demonstrated separately but no actual PS3 software was ever run because there simply was not yet a box in existence that combined the two.
SeanP @ Jan 12th 2007 6:16AM
#36 : Murc
"every one knows that MS uses a proprietary hard drive on teh 360, so you cant swap it with a 200 gig one."
You ignorant don't know that inside of the 360HDD box, it's just a stupid standard 2.5" SATA drive ?
The Xbox360 file system have been crack a long time ago (http://www.360-hq.com/xbox-tutorials-26.html), but that's not the point.
To upgrade your drive, follow this :
1 : Disassembling the Xbox 360 HDD unit
http://360.xbox-hq.com/xbox-tutorials-3.html
2 : Use Norton Ghost to clone the 20GB drive to the new one,
you just need a PC with 2 SATA bus available.
http://360.xbox-hq.com/xbox-tutorials-17.html
Enjoy.
Allan @ Jan 12th 2007 6:24AM
LOL, Bill Gates never said that 640KB is all the memory will need, Gates knows as well as anyone who works in IT that technology will always change and improve according to Moores Law. On the other hand, interesting article
Gabriel @ Jan 12th 2007 9:50AM
Hey, you put a link to the article about Bill Gates saying Nintendo is the 360's toughest competition to show he was contradicting himself, but, even though he should try to clarify this, he is not actually contradicting himself. Sony has been stated as Microsoft's biggest and most direct competitor by Bill Gates. He however called Nintendo Microsoft's toughest competition in gaming. The difference, however small it may seem is that Sony and Microsoft are both going for a broad multimedia environment, while Nintendo is, for the most part, focusing on games.
dan @ Jan 13th 2007 4:31AM
There are alternatives to Media Center Edition for streaming media to the 360. I've been using TVersity and it works pretty well for me:
http://www.tversity.com
The front end could use a little work, but it gets the job done. The 360 only supports .wmv video (who uses that?), but TVersity will automatically transcode any format (.avi, .mov, .mpeg, etc) as it streams to your 360. You don't have to waste time (or space) reformatting all of the movies you want to watch. It will even stream to my PSP (audio and pictures only, no video... yet).