Xbox 360 IPTV outshines Apple TV?

by Richard Mitchell { Jan 12th 2007 at 11:35AM }

While the Apple iPhone may have unexpectedly blown Microsoft's Zune out of the water at CES, the 360 looks as though it may have pulled an unexpected fast one of its own. What we're talking about here is Xbox 360 IPTV versus Apple TV. As noted by Beta News, it may have been the frothing Apple blogosphere itself that muted the announcement of Apple TV: "I got the feeling that as [Steve Jobs] was going through the iTV announcement, the blogger was going, okay, 720p ... yadda, yadda, yadda ... come on, let's get to the phone!" Meanwhile, Microsoft dropped something of a bomb by announcing that IPTV was coming to the Xbox 360. The reason that this is very different from Apple TV is that Microsoft has already established an Xbox ecosystem. They already have millions of customers with 360s in their homes. According to the article, Microsoft has a key advantage in the TV space because of its leverage with the gaming audience (you know, 18-30 year old guys who dig technology).

We have to admit, had we known that our Xbox 360 was merely a sneaky way of Microsoft solidifying its dream of creating the mythical "set top box," we would have been skeptical to say the least. But now that it's here, now that downloading movies and TV is possible (and having great games to boot), we're enjoying every minute of it. Microsoft has succeeded in an arena completely separate from games, and is giving similar services a run for their money (we wouldn't be surprised if the Video Mareketplace moves from its number 2 position to claim 1st place either).

So, maybe the iPhone did shoot the Zune in the face, but Microsoft seemingly struck a similar blow with the IPTV announcement. Then again, maybe the Apple TV and 360 IPTV shouldn't even be looked at as competitors, as Apple clearly isn't aiming for the HDMI loving, 1080p needing crowd. What do you think, will the 360 become the first mass market set top box that the tech industry has been dreaming of since the 90s? (Bonus question: has it already?)

[Thanks, Jonah Falcon]

Tags: 360 iptv, 360Iptv, apple, apple tv, AppleTv, iptv, xbox 360 iptv, Xbox360Iptv

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

MisterFuhrman @ Jan 12th 2007 12:08PM

First of all, let me admit that I am a Mac/Apple fanboy but also a devout 360 loyalist.

The Zune wasn't shot down by the iPhone; rather, the Zune shot itself in the face. Your Engadget Overlords dismissed its software as buggy and far from intuitive (twice). People haven't really caught on to the whole 3x3 sharing idea. And while crippled WiFi is still better than no WiFi, it's still crippled.

As far as Microsoft's IPTV trumping Apple TV, you have an inherent flaw in your argument. While Microsoft does have a 10.4+ million user base and growing for it's IPTV solution, what do you think Apple has as an installed user base for its Apple TV? What are the requirements for Apple TV? First off, a PC or a Mac. You've narrowed down to probably 90% of American households. Secondly, iTunes. Well, since tens of millions (hell, probably hundreds of millions) of people use iTunes already and it's FREE, I don't see how Microsoft has the upper hand in this at all.

Don't get me wrong, I still like Microsoft. The business world couldn't function without the Redmond juggernaut. However, as long as Jobs is at the helm of Apple, they will always have three competitive advantages that Microsoft will never catch up with: beautiful, minimalist design, intuitive, easy to use software, and reliability.

P.S. I really hope the 360 IPTV is close to as good as Apple TV, but I seriously, seriously doubt it.

Richard Mitchell @ Jan 12th 2007 11:58AM

MisterFuhrman,

You're forgetting that people will have to purchase the Apple TV box itself ($299). The millions of 360 owners already have their box. Otherwise, well thought out comment.

Mike B @ Jan 12th 2007 12:02PM

Who needs appleTV? I love apple products but right now with connect360 I can stream all of my media from my mac to my xbox. Nothing to buy except the connect360 software. Sure the interface could be improved and nullriver need to complete the transcoding software but it works great now.

Ross @ Jan 12th 2007 1:45PM

I am sort of confused....aren't these two different things? Isn't the IPTV more like a Tivo, whereas the AppleTV just streams media from your iTunes on your computer to your TV?

That is very different...someone please clarify.

kuras @ Jan 12th 2007 12:01PM

How exactly does the iPhone bow the Zune out of the water?

Is the Zune even a phone? Are they even in the same price bracket. Do they even have the same target demographic? This is comparing like comparing Apples to Cucumbers. They aren't even in the same dang group.

hawkeye @ Jan 12th 2007 12:22PM

You've got a great theory going there, except that the millions of customers with 360's aren't the same ones that can get IPTV. It's only going to be available on AT&T's Lightspeed/Uverse service, which narrows it down to probably 10 people (AT&T has been abysmally slow on rolling it out). On the other hand, everyone can get access to iTunes, even on a dial-up in the middle of nowhere.

The 360 also doesn't support any useful formats (Transcode360 is not an answer), and the AppleTV might (might not too, but you can make FrontRow play anything). 360 is near useless as a HTPC until you can play XviD or TS streams on it. Live Marketplace is neat, but they need to fix their prices (15 minutes != 45 minutes) before I'm jumping on the bandwagon (oh, and releasing a decent sized hard-drive)

(I'm just bitter because I want IPTV and won't get it for probably 5 years at the speed AT&T moves)

tpudd @ Jan 12th 2007 3:34PM

i remember years ago with the 3DO, when they said game systems would be the new set-top multimedia box in the living room. who'da thunk that it would only take a decade for a company to sneak it in on us while we were busy trying to earn achievement points in Gears of War. Trip Hawkins must be very proud to see his crazy ideas finally come to fruition.

george @ Jan 13th 2007 12:22AM

Since they are the same price, the only reason to get Apple TV is if you don't like video games, love dIsney, or are a hard core Apple fan. I have an Xbox360. I will probably advise my dad to get an Apple Tv.

kuras @ Jan 12th 2007 12:32PM

But.. if i want iPTV, my choices are...

1) Apple TV (just does TV)
2) XBOX360 (what doesn't it do?)

for about the same price.

Richard Mitchell @ Jan 12th 2007 12:38PM

"It's only going to be available on AT&T's Lightspeed/Uverse service"

That's not true. It was rumored at the beginning, but Microsoft has clarified it since. Basically, the service can be offered by any company that uses Microsoft's IPTV middleware (read: a lot of them). We ran a story about this yesterday:

http://xbox.joystiq.com/2007/01/11/hands-on-with-360-iptv/

White_House!! @ Jan 12th 2007 12:41PM

No kuras! According to MisterFuhrman, the Apple TV is already an overwhelming success & a product that everything else must aspire to be! Your comment will create a time rift and destroy us all!

Ryan @ Jan 12th 2007 12:44PM

I don't really understand the references to IPTV in this article. AppleTV does absolutely nothing close to IPTV or DVR. All it does is "sync" (no, not stream) music, photos and movies from your computer to the set-top box so you can watch it on your TV.

You could try to compare it to the 360's Media Center capabilities... but given the number of people that actually have a legal copy of Media Center in their home, that comparison is kind of moot.

So, really the only thing you could compare it to is the 360's movie/tv show download capabilities. And given the relatively few number of HD movies you can download, the "rental" versus "purchase" factor, the (currently) limited hard drive space, and the fact that Apple will more than likely trump the 360 in the user interface and ease-of-use aspects, I think the better choice is pretty clear.

Although, like the article mentioned, the target audiences are probably pretty different. The AppleTV is probably more for hardcore A/V-nut crowd, while the 360 features appeal more to people looking for the cheapest possible route to HD content.

And like most other people, despite all this, I'm still way more interested in the 360 features than buying an AppleTV.

Gabriel @ Jan 12th 2007 2:28PM

iPhone is twice the price of the Zune and only has 8 gigs for music. It will also be a closed platform as far as games go, with Apple being very strict about which games go on the phone. Plus, there will be new versions of the Zune. Also, iPhone will not be available to everyone. You have to have Cingular to get an iPhone. I am a verizon customer, so I'm SOL if I want the iPhone.

Scott @ Jan 12th 2007 12:56PM

The determining factor for the success of IPTV on the 360 is going to be how fast IPTV can be spread by the providers. Right now IPTV is offered in very few markets.

Bytemy@ss @ Jan 12th 2007 1:20PM

The 360 IPTV service does require a fiber enabled area to get it. Which is currently being offered in seven small markets. Most 360 owners will not be able to get it.

While anybody with a TV and a computer can get Apple TV.

jc @ Jan 12th 2007 1:24PM

I really don't care which is better, or outshines... whatever.

I have a mac ibook and a pc, I have an X360 and airport extreme/express/ipod... and I will be getting the iphone and apple tv.

I like the iphone because of it's osx underpinnings (and camera, touch screen, everything...), and apple tv because it has hdmi.

But in the end, I am a gamer, and I will be using my X360 more than anything else, but I find that it lacks as a media center because it has such a small hard drive.

Bytemy@ss @ Jan 12th 2007 1:21PM

AT&T laid the fiber, and they offer the service in seven, not-so-major metropolitan areas.

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=9036
Stamford Area
New Haven
Hartford
San Jose
Bay Area
Houston
San Antonio

Most XBox 360 owners will not have access to the service for quite some time. IPTV is vapor to most of the country.

AppleTV is useful to anybody with a PC or Mac and a TV.

hawkeye @ Jan 12th 2007 2:45PM

It's still got to be fiber-optic to work, right? Even if you include Verizon it's an infinitesimal number of people compared to iTMS.

lp @ Jan 12th 2007 1:25PM

>>"It's only going to be available on AT&T's Lightspeed/Uverse service"

That's not true. It was rumored at the beginning, but Microsoft has clarified it since. Basically, the service can be offered by any company that uses Microsoft's IPTV middleware (read: a lot of them). We ran a story about this yesterday:

monal @ Jan 13th 2007 11:12AM

#15 you are correct, appletv is closer to what XBMC does for modded xboxes.....if Apple is able to stream mutli-format video in a user friendly way this will be a very interesting product even at 300 bucks. IPTV is a great idea in concept but first we need to get higher bandwidth broadband(30mbps+) priced something similiar to what you get in Korea or Japan to make this work.

me @ Jan 12th 2007 7:02PM

You could try to compare it to the 360's Media Center capabilities... but given the number of people that actually have a legal copy of Media Center in their home, that comparison is kind of moot.

My porn and music and picture stream from my360 andi have xp media center isnt needed for the stream they released a patch for the streaming movies early last summer....At 1st it was only music but its everything....most of my porn is dvix xvid Mpeg-4 BTW

Mike B @ Jan 12th 2007 4:56PM

Connect360 does everything you would need on a MAC setup except stream non-WMV files. They are working on a transcoder but at this point you cannot stream divx and the like. For now you need to convert your non-WMV files using flip4mac studio. BTW appleTV will also restrict the use of divx files just like connect360 or a windows media center setup. There are transcoders for the windows media setup from what I have heard. IPTV is another beast and really goes above and beyond what appleTV or connect360 do.

Clayj @ Jan 12th 2007 2:57PM

Comparing AppleTV to IPTV is like comparing (ha) apples to oranges. They're only marginally related.

Now, comparing AppleTV to the Xbox 360's built-in ability to play music, movies, photos, etc. over your home network is absolutely on point. They both pretty much do the same thing, although of course the AppleTV doesn't play games or DVDs or HD-DVDs (with optional 360 add-on drive).

From that perspective, my reaction to the AppleTV was pretty much "meh". I already have two 360s, and they can talk to my Macs *or* my PCs and stream my music, movies (WMV), and photos... so why would I want an AppleTV? Sure, it's got HDMI, but it's also limited to 720p output.

So why would I want to buy a $300 AppleTV when I already have two 360s? There's no reason at all. AppleTV will appeal to people who have no 360s or who are Apple devotees.

brett @ Jan 12th 2007 7:53PM

That is retarded. The products do completely different things. It's like saying a Ferrari outshines a dump truck.

Hyloka @ Jan 25th 2007 3:08AM

Clay is right on point.

AppleTV does not equal IPTV. AppleTV is a media extender (something Microsoft's been doing for years). The closest comparison, but a weak one in terms of features, functions is an Xbox core system for the same price that blows away the functionality of the AppleTV and is extremely easy to use with a very nice UI.

IPTV distributes live, streaming TV to a set top box that assembles the packets, manages DRM and content restrictions, etc. It's just like Cable, Directv, etc., only over an ethernet cable. You'd have all the normal channels you'd find on cable, a program guide and could tune into the programs playing according to schedule. What Microsoft announced is that the Xbox 360, which already has more features and functionality than an AppleTV for the same price, will also be able to be updated through firmware, to be able to act as a set top box for IPTV.

Comparison of AppleTV to Xbox360 (w/o IPTV)

Apple Xbox 360

Price $299 $299*

Streams
Content from Y Y
PC/Mac

Plays content
in 720P Y Y

Plays content
in 1080i N Y

Plays content
in 1080p N Y

Plays DVDs N Y

Plays HDDVD N Y

Plays 160+
next gen
games N Y

voice chats
with friends N Y

Text
messenging N Y

Has HDMI out Y** N

* Xbox 360 core

**HDMI, while nice for reducing wires, doesn't make the AppleTV 720P look better than 720P through component or VGA

Luke @ Jan 13th 2007 1:08PM

I was going to comment on the x360fb article, but after reading through the ignorant cloud of comments before me, I'm too baffled to say anything.

My only remaining opinion is that gaming sites should ignore silly features like movie downloads, web browsers, and IPTV (especially as compared to Apple products). Then again, what are you supposed to do when your readers keep bringing it up? The 360 plays better games than Apple TV. Why does anything else matter on this site?

Al J. @ Jan 12th 2007 8:00PM

I just use my modded original xbox as my media center now, works great and has given the old hardware new life.

ZeroCorpse @ Jan 14th 2007 4:19AM

Hey, I love my Mac with Connect360, but it does NOT do everything that Apple TV will do. For starters, video downloads on the 360 are confined to a small hard drive which is rapidly filling up with demos, TV shows, and XBLA games.

Second, Connect360 does NOT stream video purchased from the iTunes Store, of which I have a lot and can store in my 150GB hard drive. If I want the newest episode of Battlestar Galactica or The Daily Show from iTunes, Connect360 can't help me. Since I favor iTunes (it's nice to sync videos to my iPod, too) I can't see Connect360 as the perfect option to Apple TV just yet.

Third, the Xbox 360, while a great media extender, is almost assuredly MUCH LOUDER than Apple TV will be, and Apple TV has wifi built in and is optimized to stream and cache quietly in the background.

Finally, the way Apple TV will handle media- the interface, menus, and general flow of the software- will likely be much better than what's currently possible with Connect360.

Now, in defense of the Xbox 360, IPTV is something I'm looking forward to, and will probably subscribe to when (if) it becomes available in my area, providing it isn't ridiculously expensive. I think a lot of people are completely baffled and misinformed about exactly WHAT IPTV is. I see comments about needed faster Internet connections more bandwidth, but **that's what IPTV is!** It's not just downloading a stream over your current IP, but a whole new IP that runs at higher speed, with dedicated bandwidth for telephone, video services, and other things. You're not going to hit the IPTV field in the 360 menu and start streaming over your existing Internet connection. You'll need to subscribe to the new AT&T service if/when it's available to you.

In this, IPTV is not a total solution, and getting my cable TV shows ala carte from the iTunes Store is a lot more efficient and space-conservative than downloading them on the 360 (although I do that, too). I won't subscribe to cable (too expensive, too monopolized) and currently IPTV isn't available here. Apple has come to the rescue with the only decent choice if I want to legally download TV shows and movies and keep them.

Yes, I could torrent TV shows and movies in WMV format to stream over Connect360. That's also not legal, and VERY slow and unreliable, not to mention that I simply don't want a ton of WMV files cluttering up my Mac when there are better, more compatible options available.

My 360 is a great game console, DVD player, HD-DVD player, CD player, and nice for the occasional movie download when I'm waiting for a new Netflix in the mail, but if I can subscribe to the Daily Show and watch it nightly on my TV without a lot of conversions, waiting, and hassle, then Apple TV is something I want.

Finally- this is direct to the poster called "me", above- Maybe your video needs only extend to porn, but some of us want more than just Internet porn clips for our family to watch on the living room TV. I'm glad it works for you, but until Connect360 starts streaming iTunes movies, Apple TV has the advantage.

Tim Coyle @ Jan 14th 2007 11:59AM

I think that the Xbox 360 has a good chance at becoming the 'new' set top box and that is definitely what Microsoft would like. The big battle will be whether they can take on traditional cable. I don't think with IPTV's small user base they can do it right now. But the FCC recently won a case against Comcast requiring them to open up the security standards on their set top boxes to provide more competition so things could already be changing.