120GB 360 HDD worth only $100

by Richard Mitchell { Apr 20th 2007 at 5:30PM }

Perhaps you've heard of the brand new, super fancy Xbox 360 Elite. You know, it's black, has HDMI and a 120GB hard drive, and it's super cool. You may have heard that the Elite has been utterly gutted, all of its vitals exposed to the world. It just so happens the 120GB hard drive was part of this dismantling process. With the drive cracked open and exposed, we can finally see the wondrous, ultra high-tech hard drive that justifies Microsoft's $179 price tag. Or can we?

It turns out that the drive inside the plastic case is in fact a Fujitsu MHW2120BH 2.5" laptop drive. Shindakun.net did some Google searching and discovered that these drives generally cost around $100. Not long ago, Aaron Greenberg stated that the drive in the Xbox 360 is comparable to a self-powered external hard drive for a PC. Alright, so there must be some sort of additional work that justifies an $80 increase above retail, right? The thing is, according to Shindakun, the 360 drive isn't self powered. You have to shut down the console to install it, because it's just an SATA drive with a proprietary connector. So, where does the extra cost come from? The plastic casing isn't that nice. Granted, there are R&D costs to consider, but $80 extra per unit seems a little steep. Without a direct explanation of the costs from Microsoft, we can make only one conclusion: we're getting ripped off.

Buyer beware.

Tags: 120 gb, 120 gb hdd, 120 gig, 120 gig hard drive, 120Gb, 120GbHdd, 120Gig, 120GigHardDrive, hdd

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

Mark @ Apr 20th 2007 5:35PM

That's insane news. I personally don't have a need for that large of a hard drive yet. It's bad enough that Microsoft rapes us for Windows Vista for our PC. Microsoft needs to adjust the price point of this device or it won't sell. What do the rest of you think?

Hoffer @ Apr 20th 2007 5:43PM

I'm hoping the hacking community figure something out. They were able to get a different hdd in the 20 GB enclosure. The 360 would only recognize 20 GB of it though since that's all the OS was designed for. Hopefully the spring update allows the OS to recognize 120 GB. Then maybe someone will figure out a way to put a 120 GB hdd into a 20 GB enclosure.

killr0y @ Apr 20th 2007 5:52PM

Cut MS a break. Of course they are in the business to make money, who ISN'T?

MS doesn't care about selling a billion hard drives.. they aren't in the hard drive selling business. If you don't want to spend the money for one, here's an idea -- DON'T BUY ONE.

The fact is you don't need it. If you get rid of the crap you don't need, 20GB is plenty. Remember, you can re-download anything you've already bought. What pisses you kiddies off is the realization that you'll never re-download something you deleted, whether you paid for it or not, because its OLD.

Now back to this 120GB hard drive... So don't buy it. MS doesn't actually care, and they shouldn't. The people wanting 120GB bad enough are the same people who are going to buy the Elite.

I've had my 360 since day one, and even though I have a full season of Southpark, about a dozen XBLA games, numerous DLC's for Oblivion, GRAW, etc. and dozens of save-games, movie & game trailers, I still have plenty of room to download an HD movie rental.

The same ones bitching about 20GB not being enough are the same ones that complained about back-compat but never played an old Xbox game on their 360 in the first place (Except maybe Halo 2).

smak @ Apr 20th 2007 5:59PM

in theory don't we just need that boot sector copied over like they did with the 20 gig version?

JJZee @ Apr 20th 2007 6:03PM

When has any peripheral from any manufacturer's console ever sold for "street" pricing. Yes they price peripherals high. But 60 dollars in profit isn't unreasonable They wouldn't be the first to have a profit margin this high and I am sure their mission statement contains the words "for a profit".

Canoftin @ Apr 20th 2007 6:04PM

Agree with the above. Seriously, what company that is selling their product at a loss (i.e. Xbox 360) wouldn't sell thier product at considerable margin. Don't see the value? Don't buy it.

Joshua Campbell @ Apr 20th 2007 6:07PM

2.5-inch serial ATA 200gb BUY A PS3

Mr Khan @ Apr 20th 2007 6:05PM

I still never get why the console companies refuse to fix some of their most egregious mistakes

Nintendo with the Online, Sony with the proprietary formats, and Microsoft with the price gouging

In some ways this industry is incredibly stagnant

Triforceowner @ Apr 20th 2007 6:06PM

I hate Microsoft. I love my Xbox 360 and my Gears of War, and I know I will love me some Mass Effect, but I hate Microsoft. Oh well, at least I beat the system (Hurray Amazon $100 Core!).

san @ Apr 20th 2007 6:31PM

The unfortunate thing about this pricing is that MS is mostly selling this larger hard drive so that XBL members can purchase or rent more downloadable content from, well, MS. Especially since most of us who do now or in the past -- I have an Apple TV for that sort of thing now -- used the 360 as a living room media hub configured and are satisified with some sort of streaming or external USB device arrangement, which uses no storage on the 360 drive, and of course will still work on PCs and Macs -- on Macs, as quickly as the 3rd party software is updated, if necessary -- even with the edition of the new video formats in the May dashboard update.

Since you don't need the extra space for games, game saves or your own media, you'd think they'd bargain basement the thing to encourage you to fill it up with their fee-based content!

DeadPlasmaCell @ Apr 20th 2007 6:18PM

I agree with most of what you said killr0y, but I'm thinking the 120GB drive is going to primarily be for those who do the IPTV thing. 120GB will fill up fast if there is going to be HD programming or something.

FJ Noob @ Apr 20th 2007 6:22PM

like some one said abouve, people who want one are buying elite, i am one of these people, because i live in uk i have to wait a little longer for my elite.

personaly i think the 20gb hdd is a little small, considering the amount of downloads you can get on xbox live, and sinse 120gb is the only other size im going for that,

main reason i am getting elite is, its black, limited and has the hard drive. call me a fan boy if you will, because i know your all jealous of my elite!

h0mi @ Apr 20th 2007 6:31PM

"When has any peripheral from any manufacturer's console ever sold for "street" pricing."

Most of the 360 accessories sell for list price; when you find them cheaper, its on clearance or a good deal.

As for the original price, the _cheapest_ price I've seen was $100, and that's for an OEM drive. I'd say the enclosure is worth $20, meaning we're getting ripped off for more like $50 (I'd give them an extra $10 before it starts getting price gougy).

steve @ Apr 20th 2007 6:48PM

I'm basing my conclusions off of other websites as I don't have the drive yet myself - and I won't be buying one... We'll just have to wait and see if the sector copying the drive works.

Tony @ Apr 20th 2007 6:50PM

I think one of the problems is that people are looking at the price of a drive that doesn't usually have a middleman. MS effectively is being added to an equation they're not normally a part of.

So not only do all the typical people have to get paid for the manufacturing of that drive, but MS needs to get some sort of cut out of it to offset that cost to begin with. Then we add in the enclosure, the packaging and the middlemen involved in delivering and selling the product... one that probably won't be made in massive quantities due to its target audience.

I sure don't want to spend $180 on a HD either, but the profit margin is doubtfully THAT high.

nonrandomhero @ Apr 20th 2007 6:55PM

MS isnt paying 100 bucks a drive, we all know there is a contract that they would sign, buying X amount for drives, getting them a lower price.....

killr0y @ Apr 20th 2007 6:56PM

@10.. No on the IPTV. Microsoft's strategy is for the Xbox 360 to use the IPTV company to store all of your content. When you record TV shows, they are stored at the IPTV company. That way your 360 can be completely off and you can still record shows. Also, it makes it harder to pirate the shows that way.

DeadPlasmaCell @ Apr 20th 2007 7:01PM

@ 17

Well shoot.. then that kinda sucks then. I'm with you on that, 20gb is way plenty for me.. I have almost every XBLA title on mine, a few demos and some HD shows and still have plenty of space left over. The HD movies take up the most space and those are no good after 24 hours of watching it, so why keep them? I think 120GB is overkill.. I think a 80gb would have been a nice middle ground there.. But people would complain that they're just copying Sony or somethin.

AttilaButurla @ Apr 20th 2007 7:54PM

I think they didn't want the Core system plus the 120 GB hard-drive to cost less than the Elite.

Blake Rampton @ Apr 21st 2007 3:09PM

You guys do realize that it comes with a data transfer kit and they still need to make a profit. You are in business for one reason to make money so lets say you puchase and put together these shiny hard drives and develop the software for data transfer and include a cable and skim 30-40 bux off the top

that is business

Dont like it dont buy it .... Its a self inflicted pleasure

nojok3 @ Apr 20th 2007 7:30PM

Do you guys like repeating yourself?

http://xbox.joystiq.com/2007/04/20/120-gb-hard-drive-snagged-for-99/

Stranger @ Apr 20th 2007 7:39PM

@ KillrOy-

Microsoft is making plenty of money. Their business model is tremendously successful, and while your core "if you don't like it don't buy it" argument is a valid one, there's quite a bit more to consider here:

Microsoft's PR monkeys made a concerted effort to justify the cost of the 120GB HD and put the new products "in context" for the consumer. Well this information makes their "context" totally false. In fact, they were lying to their customers by the way in which they tried justifying the price point. They even did it on Major Nelson's podcast (remember that this is the guy who self proclaims to have kicked PR people out of his office).

The other point to consider is that yes, Microsoft is in the business of making money, and they need to make as much as they can. Since when did console manufacturers ever solely rely on hardware sales to make money??? Not even Nintendo does that, and they actually could!

DLC is a cash cow for Microsoft. If giving people a bigger HD would stimulate that end of their business, it absolutely behooves them to care about releasing one at a price point that allows for maximum market penetration. Don't think they don't care.

You can certainly cling to your "just re-download it" mantra, but that's not what consumers want, and MS knows this. Re-downloading is an inconvenience people don't want to have to deal with. When you're paying for something, you want to have instantenous access to it at all times.
Constantly having to manage your content isn't what the casual consumer wants to have to do, and with MS launching their IPTV initiative, partnering up with Netflix, and the already tremendous success of the Live Marketplace; they'd be very stupid to not want to make it as easy as possible for their ever expanding user-base to do whatever they want.

I have 3 gigs available on my HD right now. There's just some stuff I just CAN'T download, whether I want to or not, and that's just bad for both me and Microsoft. "Just re-download it" is a workaround, not a solution, and it's just not good enough anymore.

The price is $180 because MS knows that some of us can't resist buying every little thing we can for our 360's, the second it hits shelves. They're just taking advantage of this fact in a historically slow time of year. Like the Elite 360, the HD will drop to a mass-market friendly price point by the holidays- when the each of the skus get a price drop to boot.

What's funny to me about this whole thing is that I didn't need some hacker cracking the thing open to know that the 120 GB HD wasn't worth $180. All you had to do was read the Press Release for the Elite. Did you really think that Microsoft was giving away a $15 cable for nothing?

They're in the business to make money.

(sorry about the rant)

Anonymous @ Apr 20th 2007 7:50PM

I'm buying the Elite because my TV won't accept 1080p over anything but HDMI. Nuff said. The extra price of the HDD is really so they don't have to sell the Elite as being extra because of the HDMI slot alone. If you look at it reasonably, the 20gb HDD was one hundred dollars. 120gb's is exactly 6 times the capacity comparitively, for nowhere near the cost per GB.

If you wanted to bitch and moan, the time was when the 20gb HDD came out. But 120gb for 180 when 20gb was 100 dollars just a year ago? It's a freaking steal comparatively. If EBgames wasn't giving 250 in trade-in on 360 premium's, I probably wouldn't be getting an elite, but since it's not really going to cost me that much, I can't find a reason not to upgrade. I want my HD-DVD's in 1080p dagnabbit! =P

napalmfuzz @ Apr 20th 2007 7:51PM

@19

I fail to see what that topic has to do with this one. could you outline it for us?

ShaolinDolemite @ Apr 20th 2007 7:59PM

Wind up the old wahmbulance.

rcholbert @ Apr 20th 2007 8:42PM

I don't think you guys realize all first party game accessories have profit margins hovering around 50%. It's where the console manufacturers and retailers make up all the cash they lose on the consoles themselves. Those who buy the accessories for any console essentially subsidize the price of the console. This is no different. Quit whining.

You guys will really want to kill yourselves when you realize that coaxial cord you bought for $0.87 only cost like $0.13.

Maiq The Liar @ Apr 20th 2007 9:26PM

The whining here is really getting old and it seems to have gotten worse on other places (Joystiq, Kotaku and Evil Avatar to name a few). Quite honestly, lately it seems these gaming blogs are being run by Sony or something. Seems like MS can't do anything right. Oh well, I guess everyone gets to ride the bitching train at some point. Yes, MS is selling this at more than the cost of the per price unit. Duh. Do you think they should just go ahead and sell it for $100? Oooh...that's a huge deal...for you. Come on people, just because MS makes a ton of money doesn't mean they can just take a hit on an accessory you really want. Of course you all have great economic and busines skillz so you can justify any answer Maybe you should take apart a controller too...that plastic and rubber and wireless equipment surely doesn't cost $49.99...again..duh. You know, I would expect X360Fanboy to cut MS some slack here..you know after all being a "fanboy" site and all. I don't expect you to just bless everything MS does right or wrong...but you think you could come up with some kind of different viewpoint on the issue rather than add fuel to the cries of price gouging. Look at the Apple TV...it's got a 40GB HD. That's pretty weak if you ask me...especially since I have to sync my shows and music, etc to it. But noooo...that's freaking awesome! Wow, how innovative Apple. You figured out a way to make me buy another iPod at $299, but for my TV...thanks...or not. Look X360Fanboy if you want me to ever read this blog again, quit adding the sky is falling posts about MS and MS Points, Marketplace, etc. As for now you are getting unsubscribed from my RSS reader...maybe some of you should consider that too...buyer beware?

NIck @ Apr 20th 2007 9:54PM

it costs that much because they have to put security and other thing along those lines so companies like NBC and fox etc will be assured a safe enviroment for downloading

Triforceowner @ Apr 20th 2007 10:01PM

19 just got utterly owned by napalmfuzz for his poor reading comprehension. :p

alex @ Apr 20th 2007 10:23PM

LOLz, what a pathetic article... Microsoft (just like ANY manufacturer/assembler of non-necessary goods) has a right to charge ANY price for this HDD unit - $100, $180, or even $300, regardless of how much it really costs them to manufacture/assemble it, because it's their own product (well, not HDD itself but the whole assembled unit, with its plastic enclosure and whatever else is inside) and they don't break any laws (by charging whatever price they want to for this non-necessary product), so whether YOU think you're "getting ripped off" or not is absolutely irrelevant. You don't like it - don't buy it, as simple as that. Seriously, it's as pathetic and as useless as complaining about, say, Alienware charging $4,000 for their custom PC even though you can, for example, buy same exact parts that this particular Alienware PC has from some online shop for $2,000 less and assemble them into a working PC all by yourself.

razer @ Apr 20th 2007 10:41PM

OH yeah and we as consumers should just STFU and not say anything about any product eh? Maybe Alex you should call up Consumer Reports and tell them to shut there magazine down because companies have every right to charge whatever they want for whatever product they want?? It's called smart shopping and I think X360F is doing us all a service warning that this might not be a good purchase for the money. You can continue to be a corporate shill, but I for one am looking to spend my money wisely. If consumers never complained can you image how high prices would be? It's our right!

magic whiskey @ Apr 20th 2007 10:43PM

If you don't want $200 shoes, don't buy them.

If you don't want a $180 HDD, don't buy it.

People have to make money on what they sell.

There's always a markup in retail, always, no matter what the product is. Even bootleg DVDs are sold at a price much higher than they're burned for.

Stop this pointless griping. Just don't buy it if you don't want it.

muscrat @ Apr 20th 2007 11:57PM

@ no.20

Very insightful comments, and easily the most true posted......

I much prefer Sony's buisness model for hard dries - giving the user the option to buy any 3rd party hardrive - of whatever size they desire.

Microsoft however will probably pressure its userbase into buying the 120 - larger sized downloadable content ect...

And Microsoft - out of the 3 big console companies - this gen, certainly milks its userbase the worst.
I mean look at the huge amount of 1st party battery packs for your wireless controler, and pathtic microtransactions - and PC gamers (like me) get the content for free (COD2 maps ect.) while 360 only gamers have to pay....

As much as I like my 360 there are many things wrong, and Msoft keep balancing all the bad decisions, with purty updates, and content...

Oh and the idea of PAYING for an XBL subscription is a joke. Msoft would be laughing all the way to the bank, with the knowlege that they have forced their users to pay for the privilage to play online, even though they give NOTHING back to the users in return. I cant wait to see how hostile PC gamers will be to Live on PC - I mean we already have X fire and Comrade......
And only STEAM is a trustworthy microtransaction netowork....

Oh and that $100 laptop drive, already gives the company profit from its price...
The extra $80 means that MS is effectivley charging $80 EXTRA for the plastic finish (which would cost JACK, and reaping an EVEN LARGER wad of cash...

DA360 @ Apr 21st 2007 1:17AM

Yea, maybe if your buying wholesale but obviously Microsoft has to charge retail prices for these HDDs and has to distribute them, specially package them, put it in the bay with the propitiatory SATA connector, and format it FATX with the required data and firmware data on the HDD, and whatnot. Though still, it should be at least slightly lower, like $150 or so. Plus I searched Google and noticed some places were getting it between $100 to about $130-140 max. Though its always been known console accessories usually are marked up in price, no matter rather MS, Nintendo, or Sony makes it, so the higher price is not surprising because as others said, they got to make money somehow, especially since they all lose revenue on each console produced, so they got to make it back in any way possible.

I ended up getting one, despite the high price, just didn't want to continue to trend of delete, re download, delete it again, re download it again, etc. especially when some downloads are big and take awhile, and clearing room for HD movies was a pain as well and its just plain annoying and inconvenient.

Also, I am sure people will figure out how to hack a MWH2120BH into the 20GB enclosure to save $80-50 anyway.

M. Dizzy @ Apr 21st 2007 2:45AM

I don't know whether to laugh or cry here. No one complains about 100 for a 20 GB Hard Drive, or 40 for a 64 MB glorified memory stick. But charge 1.50 a gigabyte for a 120GB hard drive and everyone's up in arms about the "rampant price gouging".

Guess what, the system costs more to make than to sell, so what brings in the profit? Accessories. What people really should be angry about is that the Elite costs only 80 dollars more than the premium. At an 80 dollar difference, I would have picked the Elite over Premium without flinching.

But when you say some mess like "it's like buying a car, next year's model is bound to be better" I take offense. Because BEFORE NOW there has never been a major feature change of this magnitude this early in the lifecycle of a console. The closest comparison would be that of the PS2 slim line that included a network connection. And that came 4 years into the PS2 timeline not 1 and a half.

Anyway, think about it you're paying an extra 50 cent per GB over normal MSRP. Yes, they are charging us more than they paid for it...that is how you do business.

Wanna talk price gouging? Wait until you find out how much a plasma tv REALLY costs to produce. You'd thank Microsoft for their benevolence in comparison.

Seiggy @ Apr 21st 2007 3:59AM

will you guys quit bitching, I challenge anyone to find an external SATA-150 160GB HDD for $100 at any retail outlet (newegg does not count they are a discount warehouse). http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?pfp=BROWSE&N=200112+4294967095+502460+4294966641+4294965591&Ne=300689&product_code=50315631&Pn=3_in_1_Combo_120GB_Hard_Drive
is the cheapest I could find a SATA150 external drive, $155.99 so its what, $20 cheaper...concidering that we're looking at a SATA150 external drive thats half the physical size of this drive, I'd say it warrants an extra $20...so quit bitchin until you understand what your talking about. Who cares if its not self powered, would you want yet another damned cable running to your HDD from the wall, no...oh yeah, and if you wanna claim that the drive is only $100 the case should be cheap, look up a SATA150 USB2.0 enclosure, and guess what, they're $50 for a 3.5" drive enclosure, so once again, guess another $20 is ok for halfing the size...and you're back at the 179 price point...

RangerPrimeX @ Apr 21st 2007 5:58AM

I was disappointed in the price but hey it is up to MS to set the price and us to decide if it is worth the purchase. Personally, I bought it as I like to get the Marketplace stuff and would rather not worry about deleting. I look forward to the IPTV coming end of year/next year.
Besides I am selling my old drive for $70 so in the end I end up paying $110.
To buy or not to buy is up to the consumer. As for the GHII tracks, that I decided not to buy at that price.

mattclarkie @ Apr 21st 2007 7:57AM

If the drives retail for $100, you can guarantee M$ wont pay more than $60 for it, so therefore by the time you add in their other costs this new drive costs them $100, therefore they are adding a 70% markup, which sounds an average MS mark-up.

Josh @ Apr 21st 2007 9:18AM

@26.
I really feel the "whining" as you put it is completely justified, i've been a fan of Xbox for quite a few years now even convinced some of my friend that purchasing the Xbox 1 was a good idea... and all along i've know M$ is a pretty shady company(as most large Corps are) but lately it seems they have really been showing their true colors. Guitar hero downloads, the Whole GOW map download pack ordeal, this hard drive. etc... while to me it's begging to seem Sony has been really coming into there own... I don't have PS3 yet... but honely it's begging to look more and more appealing. i guess what i'm trying to say is I think Microsoft is really beginning to drop the ball, as in they have gotten a little bit of a cred with gamers and it's gone to their heads...especially with all of Sony's stumblings and I realy am beginning to feel like they are taking there fans really for granted. what do you think?

DA360 @ Apr 21st 2007 10:02AM

Well, Sony is going to do the same as well, they will charge top dollar for everything as well. On all three, were paying a huge markup on the controllers as well as well as other accessories. I am sure Sony is going to charge an arm and a leg for their unit with a bigger HDD as well, despite you can pay less and put a HDD in there yourself (even though I don't think Sony supports it or would offer customer support for it, despite they allow you to do it). Corporations are looking any way possible to turn in a profit, it doesn't matter what company. Plus, every console accessory in history has been marked up, why would the 360 HDD be any different...

Also, when it comes to marketplace, Microsoft DOES NOT set the prices of the content, the DEVELOPER of the game does, so blame Red Octane/Activision for the high song prices. So unless the game is developed by Microsoft, they have no influence on the prices. The only influence MS has is they did is make the point system and marketplace for the content, that's about it. Also, the same content would cost the same on the PS3s marketplace, so more than likely when Guitar Hero 3 comes out on all three platforms, the extra songs will be expensive on both Xbox 360 and PS3 if they haven't learned their lesson.

Anonymous Rep @ Apr 21st 2007 5:02PM

37. If the drives retail for $100, you can guarantee M$ wont pay more than $60 for it,

Really?

And just exactly where is YOUR proof of your comment? First off, there's not ALWAYS that much of a quantity discount - especially since we're only talking about an initial run of about 400,000 units or so. Regular HD's for your PC are running, at retail, around $1 - $1.25 per GB, so that would put a regular 120 GB HD at $120 - $150.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7955304&st=120+GB+HD&type=product&id=1153997598155

Yep, that's Best Buy, which is a standard retailer. NOW - Microsoft has some other wonderful costs. They have to put the HD into that slick plastic case and surround it with assorted foam so that when your little brother comes along and pulls the HD off your 360 and uses it as a hammer, the HD ought to still work. (Or when you drop your 360 onto it's side from vertical to horizontal.) Net result - the case and other items add a few bucks to the cost, so $150 - $160 for the item wouldn't be too out of line.

NOW - how are most of the HD's made actually sold? WITH the unit - which means they've got to factor in that there will not be as much of an individual market for the HD. In fact, the philosophy on pricing for the HD was directly related to the price of the core unit. The core is $300, the premium is $400, so the 20 GB was $100. The core is $300, the Elite is $480, so the HD is $180. That way, quite frankly, there's no advantage to buying a core and then picking up the 120 GB HD separately - you just buy the Elite as a package.

NOW - when (and I'm speaking strictly on my own here, nothing official) the price comes down across the board this holiday, then you may see the pricing change on some things.

At the same time, I'm certainly not going to complain about Microsoft making a profit - not when that's who pays me.

scott @ Apr 21st 2007 8:01PM

Yea not sure why everyone is getting fired up over this. Companies aren't out to make killer deals for you. You pay an extra 15 bucks for games, probably an extra 10-15 for controllers, this is just a bigger purchase. Companies are out to make money, shocking as it may be.

I think a lot of you forget MS lost money on their console for a long time, they need to recuperate that somehow.

Otis Whitaker @ Apr 22nd 2007 10:47AM

The problem with "Don't like it? Don't buy it" is that if you want a 120GB, but don't like the price, you pretty much HAVE to buy it if you want the 120GB HDD, because the only HDDs allowed on the XBOX 360 market, are made by Microsoft. That's how they get you, with the propietary crap. Just like MS won't let anyone else make wireless pads, and such.

It's really, really god damned annoying.

and it's quite annoying how people just casually ignore the fact that, in the terms of that, Sony is very open. But nooo, it's all "LOL $600 RIP OFF!!!"