Capcom responds to N+ outburst, sorting is the real XBLA problem
After hearing about the Metanet N+ developers going on a verbal Xbox Live Arcade assault, Capcom felt the need to semi-defend the service all while pointing fingers at an entirely different issue they have with the XBLA. Sorting of games.Posted over on Capcom's blog, Adam "TheBooya" Boyes isn't happy with the Metanet crew and their "solution" to a less than stellar XBLA service. According to Boyes, restricting games probably isn't the answer to everything and agrees that "tastes may vary, but there are many games out there for everyone." Boyes continues to argue various points made by the Metanet crew, everything from how the XBLA isn't like retail, how customers should research products before they purchase and ultimately lands on the one problem he feels needs fixing: How you find the great games. "Instead of complaining that XBLA has hundreds of games that are 'utter shit' and advocating a no-limit release of a billion craptastic games, I think we need to work on lobbying a better system for sorting games." And we think that pill is little more fair, more forward looking and a bit easier to swallow than Metanet's.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
SoxFan13 @ Mar 28th 2008 11:06AM
I don't know... I think he's saying the same thing, but doesn't have the balls to go after it like Metanet did. This "sorting" he speaks of, it would be what, exactly? Order the games from Good to Crap rather than alphabetically?
Jonah Falcon @ Mar 28th 2008 11:07AM
People don't buy your game on XBLA, you whine like Jeff Minter.
People buy your game on XBLA, you say, "XBLA is teh pwnz!"
Jonah Falcon @ Mar 28th 2008 11:08AM
@SoxFan13:
XBLA *does* sort its games - by genre. I have no idea WTF he's whining about.
Sean Kelley @ Mar 28th 2008 11:11AM
I really think XBLA should allow gold users the ability to rank and review games. You could then sort by the rank in any gerne you specify.
Crap game problem solved.
handlotion @ Mar 28th 2008 11:13AM
I think the problem is the lack of "utter shit" in the games category listings, this would free up a lot of space for games worthy of being on there!
evilsmevil @ Mar 28th 2008 11:22AM
Steam solves this particular problem by allowing users to sort games by metacritic rating and while this may not be appropriate for XBLA games (alot of the major review sites don't tend to review XBLA games in quite the same way as fully fledged retail titles), some kind of independant scoring system (if possible from aggregated sounrce rather than a single one) would be a great way of allowing the good stuff to rise to the top.
It's not surprising that a game such as N+ has sparked off this debate. The game has polarised opinions with some loving it (i fall in that camp!) and others thinking its a piece of tripe. Ironically an aggregate scoring system would not really help N+ as it would probably score an average rating!
Tony @ Mar 28th 2008 11:33AM
Obviously you can sort by genre, but consider coming to this system new and seeing 150 games there. There's no concept on what's the most popular, what is still played the most... some of the genre sorting is extremely vague at best.
There's certainly better ways to break it up than just offering a big list of names. If this means more sorting options or more information on the list than just the title of the game, I don't see how it's a bad thing.
SadisticHam @ Mar 28th 2008 11:35AM
He makes a good point. And was a hell of a lot more helpful in his criticism than the N+ guy.
riggs @ Mar 28th 2008 11:38AM
even a basic star rating system would help this shit.
ZEBRA NINER @ Mar 28th 2008 11:43AM
XBLA is just like retail, some games are good some are not. Even the "crappy" games have fans, so they should get put out there. Just because you deem a game "crappy" doesn't mean that people shouldn't get a chance to play it.
JUICED @ Mar 28th 2008 11:52AM
He probably means like keyword search.
For example, on modzilla firefox, I type in a specific game, before I finish my search has been narrowed down.
Neuromancer @ Mar 28th 2008 11:57AM
@Sean
"I really think XBLA should allow gold users the ability to rank and review games."
Agreed, with the caveat being that you have to have played at least the trial version of the game before you can make a rating. Silver users would be OK too, except then an unscrupulous game company would probably create a bunch of fake accounts just to bump up their games' ratings (EA I'm looking at you).
Cryovat @ Mar 28th 2008 12:01PM
There's two features that could have been nice.
They could follow Valve's example and display the Metacritic score for each game.
You could also have - instead of a star system - simplified "I like this game" or "I did not like this game" ratings for each game, and possibly a small carrot for gamers who take the time to submit a rating after having played it.
When browsing the game store, the system could check for users with a similar like/dislike history and give some sort of indicator based on that.
Jonah Falcon @ Mar 28th 2008 12:10PM
"Obviously you can sort by genre, but consider coming to this system new and seeing 150 games there. There's no concept on what's the most popular, what is still played the most... some of the genre sorting is extremely vague at best."
"They could follow Valve's example and display the Metacritic score for each game."
Microsoft doesn't need to.
Every.
Game.
Has.
A.
Free.
Trial.
Maybe people tried N+'s demo and said, "Nah. Pass."
Sean D. @ Mar 28th 2008 12:30PM
How about a system like Netflix, that guesses how much you might like a game based on how you liked similar games AND lets you give games that you've tried out a rating- so you can know immediately if you tried a game and how much you liked it. Perhaps even an "intend to buy" indicator flag.
I tried the N+ demo and I thought it was great, but like most games on XBLA, the demo was more than enough to satiate my curiosity and I had no desire to buy the game. Back to my staple games of Rock Band, Rez, Pinball FX, and Call of Duty 4...
Jon @ Mar 28th 2008 12:45PM
I don't see what all the fuss is about. I wasn't sure what to play so I looked at Major's site to see what was popular and downloaded the trials to see if I liked them. Fine put a damn rating on the games and allow gold members who have downloaded the trial/played it submit a review. Problem solved. Moving on...
MrMuggs @ Mar 28th 2008 12:48PM
From a marketing standpoint, I don't think MS wants users to rate XBLA games so you can sort the best reviewed to the top. IF that happens, there would be less sales of the crappy games. MS allows users to sort based on genre and there's a free trial. Outside of that, they aren't going to take a chance of reducing sales by allowing reviews.
Larry @ Mar 28th 2008 1:00PM
Sean D. brings up a good solution that Microsoft has sort of implemented with the video section. If you play video downloaded from XBL it will suggest to you three other videos to watch. If they added that sort of system to Xbox live Arcade it might move some game types.
A user based rating should be restricted by people who buy the full game. There maybe many people who might play a game type they normally don't like because it is free.
Jcarpio @ Mar 28th 2008 1:27PM
As far as something helpful.. why can't they mimic what they do for the video marketplace?
has latest downloads and a top downloads column
determining what's crappy is subjective and depends on the person. Many reviewers thought brain training was crap, but yet it was still the #1 sold of last week.
just keep making suggestions to MS so they can add it to their spring update. For the most part they've given us what we've wanted in those updates.
RudyHuxtable @ Mar 28th 2008 1:36PM
Shit that has been sorted differently is still shit.
SoxFan13 @ Mar 28th 2008 1:58PM
@Jonah Falcon-
N+ has sold well. The interview of the developers took place before the game had even come out yet on XBLA.
However, I agree with you, everyone has the opportunity to demo the games. IMO, N+ wouldn't have sold much at all w/o the demo because it's hard to "get" just from screenshots.
Maxx the Slash @ Mar 28th 2008 2:07PM
The problem isn't with the games being legitimately bad on XBLA, it's with the sorting of the games? Sort them better and they become better? Great idea Capcom ,you ****ing idiots. Why dig around through a pile of craptastic games when we could turn them into sorted-but-still-craptastic games? Brilliant idea Capcom, let's give them a round of applause.
Capcom has no idea how to fix Xbox Live Arcade either, so they should just shut the hell up.
Christy McGrory @ Mar 28th 2008 2:15PM
capcom can go to hell, thier games are Rubbish, at least Metanet brought out a good game beforehand.
thesimplicity @ Mar 28th 2008 2:37PM
Xbox Live--surprisingly--needs to take a cue from the Wii on this one. The Everybody's Nintendo channel makes sorting through all the VC games a much easier task thanks to the review and recommendation systems. What live really needs is a rating for every game (made only by people who purchased the full version), and an ability to see how your friends rated it.
ZeroCorpse @ Mar 28th 2008 3:15PM
I think a rating system that allows gamers to give a game from 1 to 5 stars would be good. The catch would be that you would have to have actually downloaded and played the trial game to completion before being allowed to rate anything.
Metacore @ Mar 28th 2008 7:53PM
I am not entirely sure how the XNA system is supposed to work, but something like a voting system is supposed to be put into place(only fellow developers can vote though). How about people vote on the XBLA games(I don't like the idea of only gold members. But you would definitely only be able to rate the game from inside it's own menu, so you would atleast have to download the trial).
Still though, I think N+ failed because it looks sort of meh(however is pretty fun, I am just saying, it's a stick figure collecting rings... Doesn't sound like much), and it has been available online for free for a while now, why pay? Even if I liked it, I may have already had enough of the flash version. I still think some kind of sorting system should be put into place. At the very very least, a top downloads(instead of featured) list of 5-10 games, and maybe even a numerical representation(doesn't have a good reason, but sounds cool).
A "Most Downloaded" just sounds so simple and bland, I am surprised it wasn't there to begin with, but would be a good first step.
FantomRedux @ Mar 28th 2008 10:51PM
M$ should start a thing like Nintendo did for the NES. Only allow developers a maximum number of releases per year, quality test all the games to make sure they aren't "utter shit" á la N+. I wouldn't mind, but it's the exact same as N-, and that's a fucking Flash game!
James @ Apr 1st 2008 5:28PM
1.) Sort by sales -- sure some of the crappier content continues to sell well, but it's better than nothing
2.) Sort by Metacritic (as above)
3.) Tagging instead of rigid genres -- the web adapted years ago; get with the program, MS. Categorize the tags hierarchically so I can drill down to only the ones I like.
4.) Let me "watch" a tag so I get a message when a new game with that tag gets released
Heh, I give MS all these great ideas and they don't even have to pay me =-)