Rumor: Achievements to rollover to Xbox 720

by Dustin Burg { May 13th 2008 at 10:30AM }

According to the fine folks over at CVG, the latest issue of Game Informer is reporting that the next Xbox console (which we enjoy calling the Xbox 720) will drop sometime in 2010 and bring with it a player's Xbox 360 achievements and Gamerscore. Of course, the Xbox 720 is a long, long while away and a lot can change, but word on the street is that all the hard work you're putting into achievements now won't go wasted once the 720 releases. And that should give you a warm fuzzy for the time being. Though, this shouldn't even be considered a rumor, it should be fact. We're looking you square in the eye Microsoft and demanding both achievement and Gamerscore rollovers come next, next gen. Otherwise, expect to feel the wraith of millions of angry fanboys ...

Tags: achievements, rumor, xbox-360

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)

Tony @ May 13th 2008 10:35AM

I wish a major site would ask them about the more important rollover: DLC and XBLA titles.

I can somewhat understand XBLA titles from the original Xbox not rolling over, but I don't know what the excuse would be from 360 into the future. How much more HD can these titles get? Plus I'd have to assume they'll want to keep XNA and their tools semi-consistent.

adam @ May 13th 2008 1:20PM

just because a orginization disbands doesnt mean the technology ceases to exzist.Look at the nes theres third partys that still make the console and sell them in china.

As long as something was already created and the research has been done completed and payed for.People will come along and pick up where that technology left off and use it to where they see fit.

movie reels are a good example of this.Even tho people went from projection to vhs people still found use for the technology and they do even now theaters etc.

Scott @ May 13th 2008 10:42AM

"wrath". not "wraith".

Britton @ May 13th 2008 11:13AM

Yeah, someone just got done playing/reading something Lord of the Rings related.

Zoot Suit Jedi @ May 13th 2008 12:21PM

Maybe he meant that the fanboy anger would be so great as to manifest itself into a supernatural being that, whilst mounted atop his dragon, will rain vengeance down upon the microsoft zealots. "The ring wraiths ride in black, ride on."

Gloqwi @ May 18th 2008 4:25PM

Orrrrrr too much Halo.

DaveC @ May 13th 2008 10:42AM

I doubt Microsoft would drop the gamercard idea seeing as it's now so synonymous with LIVE, this of course lends itself to gamerscore and achievements rolling over.

a ham sandwich @ May 13th 2008 10:45AM

well your gamerscore is associated with your gamertag, right? so i wouldnt expect any less.

adam @ May 13th 2008 10:46AM

actually the 720 "and it is called the 720" will be coming in 2011.They will be using hddvd media for gaming.This of course by then hddvd burners will be damn near impossible to find meaning less pirated games.

DjDATZ @ May 13th 2008 10:49AM

you do realize that what you said is completely and utterly retarded?

HDDVD is GONE and will NEVER return. Blu-Ray is here to stay. Get your shit right.

SAGExSDX @ May 13th 2008 10:51AM

makes sense =P

adam @ May 13th 2008 11:28AM

Yes we all know hddvd as a movie format is dead but as a storage format it has potential due to the fact that its hard to find hddvd burners.This means a good amount of disc capacity right up there with bluray.No loyalty to sony and less chance of pirated games due to hddvd burners not being mass marketed.By 2011 there wil b e bluray burners is all pcs meaning pirated sony games will be on the rise.

cranium @ May 13th 2008 11:49AM

at first I thought you were joking, and maybe you still are, but you do have a really good point.

after all, Sony still uses umd for the psp and most people consider that a dead movie format.

Shadowman @ May 13th 2008 11:51AM

HD DVD is dead, which means the company behind it isn't making the disks any more, which means there not going to bring it back just to plonk games on, the costs would be stupid and limit 3rd party support.
Its either going to be on Blu-ray, or some new fangled disk storage medium which can store 1 Terrabyte and smell like peppermint.

adam @ May 13th 2008 12:04PM

actually the discs themselves are cheap to make.It would not alienate 3rd party devs at all.Saying that would mean umd alienated 3rd party devs or nintendos disc formats like gamecube.

With dev kits that are supplied will come burners and its the best route.The technology has been developed already it will cost them nothing to manufacture the discs and burners as there is no huge demand by the consumer.It will be a one way product for microsoft.

Microsoft has been banking on digital delivery.They never really supported hddvd as a movie format.I feel they pushed toshiba to manufacture the technology becuase they knew the day would come that they would need a solid sized disc and that they would be the only ones with there paws on it.

movies delivered via digital download games on hddvd with dvd upscale thats there goal they know bluray will be a dead movie format in a few years.Dont believe me look at bluray attach rate its going no where period.

Swagman @ May 13th 2008 12:20PM

For clarification sake, here is the skinny on the future of the HD DVD format.

Yes, there is still a future for the HD DVD format. That future is more in China (you know those guys who actually manufacture about 80% of all brand and non-brand DVD players on planet Earth), Taiwan and the far East who have not only forbidden the import of any competing formats (ie. blu-ray), but has state support for the adoption of a version of the HD DVD technology, dubbed CH DVD (China High Definition DVD).

CH DVD will be the only successor to DVD in the world's largest consumer market (ie. no format war in China). The format is set to launch officially at the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing this summer, has full support from every major Hollywood studio (including Sony Pictures Group), and at the prices the Chinese government, and their many industry partners will be foisting these on the populace, stands a reasonable chance of faster adoption rate than DVD in that part of the world. Ultimately meaning, that for HD content, they have a captive audience of around a couple hundred million consumers making up the Chinese middle class who can afford them.

So, besides using the exact same technology and fabrication plants as HD DVD, what does this have to do with the future of HD DVD?

Simple.

The difference between CH DVD and HD DVD is negligible. Pretty much making one is making the other. The only real difference will be in the CH DVD players will use a different file system than HD DVDs. However, the Chinese being who they are, and firmware being what it is, and both HD DVD players and CH DVD players requiring an Ethernet port and the ability to be upgraded as standard parts of each format, do not be surprised to see HD DVD compatibility firmware patches released for all CH DVD players, meaning that CH DVD players will likely play both, which is good for anyone who wants to import their player from China - and let's face it, what gadget guru out there hasn't imported something from China.

As a storage medium, it also means that the HD DVD format is not dead, but quite the opposite. Once again, the Chinese government and their manufacturing partners, are pushing this application of CH DVD in a big way. So expect tons of those in th markets as they continue to proliferate in the Far East.

What does this mean for Xbox 720?

It means that as the adoption of CH DVD continues unabated in China and the Far East, the price for the technology will continue to decline, making it feasible that by 2010 - 2012 window when the Xbox 720 is expected to launch, the technology should be inexpensive enough to license very cheaply to go into the new Xbox, without contributing heavily to the cost of the hardware or the cost of the discs the games are pressed on. Most likely should this possible scenario play out, Microsoft could pick up the HD DVD license for cheaper than the CH DVD or blu-ray licenses, as the format is no longer in existence, giving the Xbox 720 an inexpensive, semi-proprietary disc format, which at 51GB per disc, should more than meet all their space needs for well over a decade of future game consoles, while also putting a reduction on piracy due to the semi-proprietary nature of the format.

However, this only one possible scenario out of four. Microsoft could go blu-ray with Xbox 720 - of course blu-ray would still be the most expensive possible choice. They could go harddrive only with Xbox 720, but I think most people would be right in assuming that HDD-only would have a limited appeal until around the time Xbox 1080 would be due to launch sometime between 2015 - 2017. There is however one other, very real alternative most gamers do not know about, which would actually be the least expensive route to go that would fulfill all the Xbox 720's and even Xbox 1080's space needs.

I'll discuss more on that in a moment.

Platinum_Skeet @ May 13th 2008 12:25PM

They can also do a dual-format reader using Blu-Ray and HDDVD only being used for games...

Taylor @ May 13th 2008 12:58PM

Umm... You on crack? The entire HDDVD association disbanded, it's gone. Furthermore, i bet all the games will be available through download, and any storage medium will be secondary for people who can't download them directly.
-Taylor

Swagman @ May 13th 2008 1:14PM

The other possible media format for the Xbox 720 (and even the Xbox 1080) would likely be in the form of UK-based New Media Enterprises' HD VMD (high definition versatile multilayer disc).

What about HD VMDs could possibly provoke Microsoft into licensing the technology?

Easy enough.

Unlike blu-ray, HD DVD and CH DVD, HD VMD still uses tried and trusted red laser assembly. Matter of fact, most of everything surrounding the production of HD VMD discs and laser assemblies, are almost exact to existing red laser DVDs.

If they are almost identical, then what differentiates HD VMDs from standard DVDs?

New Media Enterprises has patented a technique in which they can increase the number of layers present in a standard red laser disc. Currently, production HD VMDs are hitting 24GB of storage space, with potential future versions storing up to 100GB capacity.

Now I know there is at least one person out there thinking, "Only 24 gigs! But blu-ray has double that space at 50 gigs." And to that, think from the perspective of a game designer and an engineer. Not only does blu-ray cost more, but no game for the next decade is going to need more than 24GB worth of storage. Yeah, Sony has games like Metal Gear Solid 4 which take up a full 50GB blu-ray disc, but that is more due to shoddy programing and stuffing the game full of non-interactive cinemas, than the actual game itself. If Microsoft were trying to sell movies on a disc, then blu-ray's extra storage would make sense. But they are attempting to sell videogames on a disc, and games do not need anywhere near as much space as movies. Look at open world games like GTA IV as the perfect example. Remember how for years everyone kept saying that it would be impossible to get sand box, open world games to fit on a regular DVD and that the Xbox 360 was doomed as a result? Well they lied. And open world games like GTA IV, Oblivion, Saints Row, Mercenaries 2, Saints Row 2, Far Cry 2, Destroy All Humans, Prototype and a host of others are the proof that all the scare about space was hogwash all along, most likely perpetrated by Sony's need to fool gamers into paying extra to have blu-ray in the PS3, when we clearly did not need blu-ray for games yet.

And while true, this generation will be the last generation where the 8.5GB of space on a regular DVD will be enough for games, that does not mean that next gen the space needs for games are going to double or triple. Microsoft is a software company, who has come to specialize in making better, easier to use, more efficient software tools and development environment for game authoring. This is not going to change anytime soon. Most likely, the average game for next gen will be somewhere between 10GB to 15GB, well short of the HD VMD's current storage limit. So yes, at only 24 gigs, HD VMD is still a very safe bet for gaming purposes for at least another decade.

But that is only part of what makes HD VMD an attractive alternative. HD VMDs (drives and discs) are about as cheap to make as regular DVDs. So whatever it costs Microsoft now to make the DVD drives for Xbox 360, it will cost them even less to make HD VMD drive for Xbox 720.

HD VMD offers a faster data transfer rate than blu-ray, HD DVD/CH DVD, or DVD. Meaning shorter load times.

650Nm red lasers are more stable than 405Nm blu-lasers, which means you can spin the disc faster, which leads to faster load times. Which is an advantage that the 12xDVD drive in the Xbox 360 already has over the 2xblu-ray drive in the PS3. With HD VMD, Microsoft will continue to have that advantage for games.

One of the main reasons HD VMDs are so cheap to manufacture, is they can utilize the exact same production lines as standard DVD. Not only does this keep costs cheaper than any of the other HD formats, but also means that anyone in the world currently making DVDs can make HD VMDs, which is a benefit to 3rd party publishers looking to get the lowest price for production of their discs.

HD VMD is 100% backward compatible with standard DVD without the need of any special equipment - no need for two separate laser assemblies. Which means that games that fit on less than 8.5GB of space can use a standard DVD, while games that take up more space can use a HD VMD.

And finally, because the HD VMD is a semi-proprietary format, it will help put a damper on game piracy without the need for any intrusive DRM.

Oh, and did I mention that it all costs less . . .

Afro_Dude @ May 13th 2008 3:46PM

I didn't know the 720 was coming out this soon! Sony will have to rethink their "10 year plan" now lol.

Very inciteful & a great read Swagman! I maybe there's life still left in my HDDVD drive after all :P. That VMD sounds like a great alternative to blue laser ones, & it wouldn't have any of the problems Blu-ray PS3 titles have at the minute (harddrive installs).

zlliM @ May 21st 2008 3:32PM

Swagman,

all very excellent points, the HD VMD sounds interesting. I have one question though, what if someone wants to play their non-HD VMD MOVIE (that is not a regular DVD) on their Xbox 720? I will be very surprised, if Hollywood picks up this HD VMD so soon after the whole blu-ray HD DVD fiasco. Sure people can watch HD movies through XBLM, but that doesn't mean people still won't buy HD movies in a disc format.

Actually I have one more question, what would be the problem with a usb flash-drive type device? (I will ask you, because I know very little of media distribution)

adam @ May 14th 2008 12:58AM

I wish they would put games on sd cards.If they get cheap enough its very possible.I can see them holding 15gb in 2 years.Im tired of cds scratching i miss the cartridge days.

DjDATZ @ May 13th 2008 10:45AM

They'd be stupid not to roll them over...

Gemini Ace @ May 13th 2008 10:49AM

If they don't roll over, I'm going Nintendo exclusive.

joey @ May 13th 2008 10:50AM

At least for now, it's a product differentiator. So they kinda have to keep the game score and achievement thing going.

And boy, am I gonna be mad if I lose all my 1665 points.

D Boy Flex @ May 13th 2008 10:51AM

I would be most pissed if they released another console with as many problems as the 360 has. I have had the RRoD, as well as the disc drive breaking, and the ethernet port not working, as well as a defective usb port. I now have a good console, falcon and all (thank you best buy replacement plan) and am loving it. I just hope they do not repeat the situation for the next next gen. I would call this fact, about the gamerscore and achievments.

Sinnix @ May 13th 2008 10:53AM

Live is multi-platform and completely independent of the 360 so of course they'll roll over to the next console. If you can have gamerscore on your Zune, your cellphone and in PC games then you can have it anywhere.

Roto13 @ May 13th 2008 10:52AM

I'd rather they do away with the whole Gamer Score thing entirely.

baby sea tuna @ May 13th 2008 11:03AM

You are in the minority there. Luckily, PSN doesn't keep score, so maybe you should try that instead.

Roto13 @ May 13th 2008 11:09AM

I do. You see, I'm comfortable with the size of my penis so I don't need a number that reflects how many games I buy.

ryan @ May 13th 2008 11:22AM

i couldn't agree more; it serves no purpose other than to encourage nerds to cheat and brag

Vcize @ May 13th 2008 12:03PM

Then why are you here exactly?

Achievements can be fun because they add replayability to games that didn't have them, and new ways to play games. Some of the achievement hunting in Crackdown is more fun than the actual main campaign of many games. I'd also never replayed an FPS game on different difficulties prior to the 360 but I went through Gears three times and Halo 3 twice and I dare say it was a lot more fun than I used to think it would be.

Of course, they also give us a good way of tracking fanboy bitch trolls and see if they've actually played much (or any) of a game/console they claim to have experience with.

Not that this is you, and it's more relevant to joystiq than X3F. Btw, what's your gamertag again?

Roto13 @ May 13th 2008 12:11PM

"Then why are you here exactly?"

Because you don't have to be an actual fanboy to have a use for the news on this site. If the only thing The Xbox 360 had going for it was the gamer score crap, you'd really have to admit that it'd be pretty pathetic.

I don't give out my gamer tag online, thanks. Partially because of this very thing. "OMG U DUN HAS A BAJILLYUN POINTS UR A NUB LOOOL"

Jeffrey Morgan @ May 13th 2008 10:55AM

Can we get some total back compat from day one (and a little less general hardware failure)?

ZEBRA NINER @ May 13th 2008 10:59AM

Ch33v0z are a big part of the success that Microsoft is enjoying right now. I know people that have both the PS3 and the 360 and they choose the 360 version of multi-platform games based on ch33v0z.

I think it would be a mistake not to carry over the gamercard and gamerscore.

Boff @ May 13th 2008 11:40AM

I think you made a couple of spelling mistakes there.... ;o)

ZEBRA NINER @ May 13th 2008 11:42AM

HAHAHAHA! Sorry, that was a little too "1337" for you. CHEEVOS FTW!

WT @ May 13th 2008 11:03AM

This should be a given. I want to know if all the DLC i've got will roll over. At the very lest the XBLA!

baby sea tuna @ May 13th 2008 11:04AM

Dear Microsoft,

This is a pre-emptive 'thank you' for not cutting off my e-penis and making me rebuild it from scratch.

Your pal,
Scott

thisguyrighthere @ May 13th 2008 11:05AM

Wow, 2010? Maybe it's just me but that seems really soon. I feel like the games coming out now still haven't been fully optimized for what the 360 can handle and with all the hardware failures it feels like the machine itself is still in an early time in its life span.

2010 is only 18 months away.

Boff @ May 13th 2008 11:45AM

Agreed. It was a good few years before the PS2 was being used to it's fullest potential. Just look at God of War.

It'll almost be 2009 by the time Gears2 comes out!
Maybe they should start porting Alan Wake and Too Human to the 720 then....

SuiXide @ May 13th 2008 3:07PM

I don't see why achievements wouldn't rollover. I mean, I can see my Halo 2 PC achievements on my 360, so...

Eddy @ May 13th 2008 11:17AM

You don't want to feel my wraith.

Eddy @ May 13th 2008 11:19AM

Along with transferring gamerscore MS make sure you still support the 360 for a few years into the 720's life span.

dylan @ May 13th 2008 11:48AM

Man, I wish I had been getting achievements since I started gaming that showed up on my xbox, even for other systems, I'd love to see what I unlocked in Smurfs for Colecovision, or Megamania for the 2600, or Pong (yeah, I'm that old)

Adam @ May 13th 2008 12:03PM

I agree with the comments about 2010 being too soon. That's only five years. Haven't both Sony and Microsoft said they expect this generation of consoles to last longer than in the past? The PS3 has a touted 10-year lifespan.

With the increased cost of the consoles and games, I know I won't be an early adopter. We've sunk way too much money into these machines to give them up after only five years.

I think a lot of people would feel the same way. Another hardware release could be a bad move for Microsoft.

Kabapu @ May 13th 2008 12:24PM

Actually, only Sony's been talking about another 10 year plan.

Keep in mind, the original Xbox was only around for 4 years before they released the successor and stopped supporting the former.

Releasing the 720 in 2010 (or 2011 for that matter) sounds about right. That would be 5-6 years after the release of the 360 (and the same time-frame it took for Sony to release the PS3 after the PS2 [6.5 years]).

The question you have to ask yourself, is are they going to repeat history and pull support from their primary user base, forcing you all to upgrade (again!).

Or -- are they going to continue to support the system, as Sony has done with the PS2 (as an example).

Roto13 @ May 13th 2008 3:42PM

"Actually, only Sony's been talking about another 10 year plan."

Which will end up being more showboating.

Munkcy @ May 13th 2008 12:14PM

I second (or third, I haven't read all of the comments) the need for full backwards compatibility with Xbox720 to Xbox360 if you're going to have achievements and gamerscore migrate over.

I agree that achievements add replayability to games, so seeing that you missed 3 achievements in Gears of War 1 won't do you any good if it doesn't play on Xbox720.

Also, am I the only one who prefers "NEXTbox" instead of Xbox720?

ccc @ May 13th 2008 1:24PM

Without reading any of the other comments here I'll say this.

I want Achievements and Gamerscore moved to the next Xbox.

I want my arcade games and anyother digitaly purchased items moved to the next Xbox.

I want the next Xbox to come with a harddrive ONLY.
And I want that harddrive to be 500 gig to 1 terrabyte depending on how far off this thing is.

I want the next Xbox to be completly compatable with all other electronics in my home.

I want costomer service reps that know what they are doing.

I don't want drm issues.

I think a program like XNA should come with the system and used for free. Only paying the fee when you have made something worth sharing amoung the marketplace.

File sharing, along with personal blogs should also be features included with the next console.

That would be a few ideas off the top of my head about the next system.