X3F Insight: Why should we care about Braid?
Braid has had quite the mixed reaction thus far. Critics universally adore the game. Gamers, on the other hand, are more divided. Some have taken the 1200 Microsoft Point plunge and never looked back. Others see the price as an impenetrable wall or, in some cases, as permission to let Microsoft charge more on future XBLA titles. We decided to take it upon ourselves to make a case for Braid, as it's really one of the best gaming experiences we've had in a while.
Read on to see why we should care about Braid.
Read on to see why we should care about Braid.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Lewis (RROD: July 16) @ Aug 9th 2008 2:09PM
dugg!
Mr.U2 @ Aug 9th 2008 2:14PM
I think that Braid will eventually drop in price. I'll buy it then... if it does drop in price.
Chester @ Aug 9th 2008 2:19PM
just a lil too expensive for an xbox live arcade game.
i'm sorry but $15 for an arcade game is not a steal! Especially when there are quite a few USED quality games at ebgames.com for $14.99.
Ithilis @ Aug 9th 2008 2:53PM
Why should the manner of distribution dictate the price of the game? If Gears of War or Fable were to be released on XBLA instead of through typical retail channels, would $15 still be too much? After all, it would just be an 'arcade game', wouldn't it?
leo2178 @ Aug 9th 2008 3:10PM
Are you really comparing Braid to games like Gears of War?
Really?
No seriously?
Ithilis @ Aug 9th 2008 3:34PM
Did you actually read my post? I wasn't comparing the games, I was questioning his close-minded notion that any title released on XBLA has to be cheap, seemingly regardless of quality.
Chester @ Aug 9th 2008 3:43PM
The way its distributed does matter. If buy game through retail store it has resalle or trade value. I can't not resell or trade in an arcade game!
ccc @ Aug 9th 2008 3:59PM
Ithilis
No, if gears of war hit the arcade say on the 720 or another future ms console it wouild easly be worth 30 or so. Gow had a 10 million dollar budget and is also credited with a few goty awards. Braid will win no awards is about 3 hours long has most likley less than a 2 thousand dollar budget and there are other platformers in the arcade that are way better than this game. Those games are also 5 dollars less so this is more of a matter of paying what it is worth to me anyways.
Voice of Reason @ Aug 10th 2008 2:55AM
Really? $2000? I am not a programmer, but I would bet to say that it was quite a bit more than that. Even if there was one programmer and the game took 200 hours (which I am sure it took more than that)... does he only make $10 an hour? What about all the other costs associated (ie licensing fees)While I own quite a few 3rd and 1st person shooters, I think this is well worth the money. It took me about 10 hours to complete GoW (which I liked as well) and cost me $60. You are entitled to your opinion, but some people also wouldn't want to pay $30 for GoW because that is not their type of game.
Odog4ever @ Aug 10th 2008 3:42PM
@ Chester
Yes, XBLA games do not have any trade-in value. But neither does a trip to the movies. Are you going to tell me that the only entertainment worth paying for is on discs that you can sell back to shady game stores for a fraction of the buying price? Get real.
You can't take your movie ticket stub and "trade it in" for a discount on the next movie you see. Most movies only last for 2-3 hrs on average. Braid takes about 4-5 hrs. to complete. So actually the per hour price of entertainment is on par. And if you think people are not shelling out the money for a $15 dollar one-time experience that only last for 3 hrs. look at the box office take for The Dark Knight (assuming you buy food from the concession stand you're paying about $15-20)
Mark @ Aug 11th 2008 1:16AM
@ Odog4ever
Again you can't compare a movie to a game, especially a game like Braid. Movies cost hundreds of millions of dollars to make and involves thousands of people working on it for 2 - 3 years. Braid does not.
Braid is NOT worth 1200 points. I played the demo and there is nothing special to it. It's like Mario Bros. with time travel. It's even got the "The princess is in the other castle" bit. COME ON!! What replay value does it have. You finish it in 3 hours and then what? Do you play it again? Do the same thing again and again? .. i think not. I bought Uno and Worms when they were first released and I'm STILL playing them. They didn't cost 1200 points.
Odog4ever @ Aug 11th 2008 3:31PM
@ Mark
I can totally compare a movie to a game. They are both entertain are they not. Just because it takes a lot of money to make something does not make it good. (Recent example is the Speed Racer movie which cost 100 mil to make but did terrible at the box office) Their are games with huge budgets that tank every year. Are you new to video games?
I played the Geo Wars 2 demo and was not impressed. It's not my type of game and I got bored quickly. But I don't go spouting off how it's not worth points just because I personally don't like it.
I rarely play games over and over again because I like variety. I played UNO a lot when I first got my Xbox. Guess when I played it last? About a year ago because I got sick of it and moved on. It was fun while it lasted but I'm not crying over the points I spent on that game because I'm not playing it anymore.
Chester @ Aug 11th 2008 4:19PM
@Odog4ever
Your arguments are just all over the place! Lets try sticking to games here, nobody is comparing movies. My comment was comparing the value of a buying an arcade game to buying a used retail game! I was saying I would rather buy a used retail game then a $15 arcade game, because the used game will have more value and replay.
Your comparing movies to an arcade game? Its apples and oranges!
Roto13 @ Aug 9th 2008 2:29PM
http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2008/20080808.jpg
leo2178 @ Aug 9th 2008 2:51PM
I'll say it again.
It's hilarious that the makers of one extremely overpriced game make a comic strip about people not wanting to pay for another overpriced game.
Ithilis @ Aug 9th 2008 2:58PM
Would the sentiment be any less true if the comic were to be made by someone else?
Didn't think so.
leo2178 @ Aug 9th 2008 3:15PM
It's like Larry Craig telling it's not a problem that John Edwards cheated on his wife.
Ithilis @ Aug 9th 2008 3:49PM
So.. pricing an XBLA game at $15 is as morally corrupt as cheating? You make a strong argument, sir!
How about this one:
When Martin Luther King spoke out against racism, was his opinion any less valid because he was black?
PeacefulOutrage @ Aug 9th 2008 5:36PM
I think you missed the point. Penny Arcade isn't saying it costs too much. They are saying people are complaining about the cost when they normally throw more away on nonsense while Braid is very worthwhile in their opinions.
ANTHOLOGY @ Aug 9th 2008 2:30PM
I thought it was 1,200 points? Still a little high for me to buy. Looks like a cool game though, but ill wait for a cheaper price. Plus im not exactly high on XBLA after sending my console in for repair, now i cant even play Golden Axe. It keeps telling me to unlock the full version, even if i download it again.
Richard Mitchell @ Aug 9th 2008 3:06PM
Oops, yeah, 1200 points.
Fixed.
Dirty Whirlwind @ Aug 9th 2008 3:59PM
Anthology, this should fix your Golden Axe problem:
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/systemuse/xbox360/licensemigration/
ANTHOLOGY @ Aug 10th 2008 2:14AM
Thanks Dirty that did the trick.
rockinaway247 @ Aug 9th 2008 2:36PM
I hated the trial but bought the game because of all the hype, and now I'm so glad I bought it.
P.S. It's 1200 Microsoft Points not 1500
Maximun2k10 @ Aug 9th 2008 2:37PM
1200 points... not 1500...
Its a great game... Challenges your brain more than Portal...
Conor @ Aug 9th 2008 2:40PM
I probably would of bought Braid if Geo wars 2 hadn't of come out right before it.
Sathan @ Aug 9th 2008 2:50PM
I will probably buy Braid eventually. I won't buy it before Castle Crashers is released. I'll bet that the reason this is 1200 ms points is so that before Castle Crashers comes out Microsoft can see how well this sells at 1200 ms points. If we are willing to pay 1200 ms points for this they will think we are willing to pay the 2200 ms points for Castle Crashers.
I could just be paranoid, but just in case I would rather not have my purchase of this game have a chance to affect the Castle Crashers price.
Stewart Bananas @ Aug 9th 2008 2:51PM
I'm glad you touched on the price issue.
I bought Braid and finished all but the speed runs so far and I've thoroughly enjoyed it. $15 for 6 hours (about how long I've played so far) vs. $10 for an hour and a half at the movies.
Most retail games (going for 4 times the price of Braid) don't have 24 hours worth of playtime to them. I'm very glad I went ahead and bought Braid. Everything about it was awesome.
leo2178 @ Aug 9th 2008 3:07PM
Sorry....... I won't pay a 50% mark-up just because the dev isn't sure he'll make his money back.
If Bioshock came out at $90 people would be bitching just as much as they are about braid.
This is nothing more than Microsuck trying to milk more and more money out of everyone. I don't think things should be free, but these ass hats nickel and dime more than a damn car dealership.
I thought the demo was pretty cool, but there is no way I will be buying this game at this price point. And all those who say the price is worth it have no right to complain that they deserve something back when it's price is dropped.
Stewart Bananas @ Aug 9th 2008 3:13PM
Comparing a $5 mark-up to a $30 mark-up is just insane reasoning.
For $5 maybe you skip a lunch one day, or pack your own rather than eating fast food or what have you.
And certainly if you're someone who holds a job, $5 every once in a while is not a big deal.
I'm also not going to complain if the price drops. That's like saying someone who bough the 360 launch day is going to complain when the price drops $50 in two years. I bought the game at the original MSRP, if it drops due to low demand then so be it.
If you'd rather wait it out that's fine by me, I'm not going to try and stop you, but I don't think that $15 is an unreasonable price of a game of such high quality.
leo2178 @ Aug 9th 2008 3:18PM
50% is 50%
No matter how you try to justify it.
PeacefulOutrage @ Aug 9th 2008 5:49PM
@leo2178
Um, there is no set "price for XBLA releases. Heck, you must be new to arcade because Bankshot Billiards launched at 1200 pts and didn't even have the 3-D view they added later.
When Jeff Minter released Space Giraffe at 400 pts, he did so risking higher sales (a new game for $5 US).
Lumines and Puzzle Quest also sold at 1200 pts.
It is up to the consumer, who has a free trial to play, to decide what THEY think the game is worth. Obviously you don't like it. Your opinion is not wrong, but it is not fact.
I like Braid. I thought it was boring until I figured out how to get the last 2 puzzle pieces on the first level. Then I thought it was awesome, and have since gotten all of the puzzle pieces available in the demo. The only thing holding me back is I want to be able to afford Bionic Commando, Castle Crashers, and this with my 3100 pts. We'll see how much Castle Crashers turns out to be.
Jace Bartet @ Aug 9th 2008 2:53PM
Jonathan Blow, the creator of Braid, responded to this concern on his blog after people kept complaining that it costs too much for what is essentially a 4-6 hour game:
"Braid is about the density and worthwhileness of that play-through experience… if you start measuring games by how long you can play them, but don’t take quality or originality into account, then I guess sitting in a chair not doing anything is a game you can play for a long time, and it’s free.
But, if you do think it’s too expensive, I hear ya. Like I said, I would rather that the price were lower. Hopefully the price will be dropped in the future, but we know how price drops go — it will probably be a while, like a year from now or something."
Kevin @ Aug 9th 2008 6:27PM
Thanks for the info, Jace.
I really can't stand this dev. I can measure your game any way I damn well please, thanks, just like you can measure my barometer for spending my money (except I won't get offended if you call me a cheap-skate).
Hell, Braid is cool, but this guy is such a prick I wouldn't buy the game for 5 MS points.
ice~ @ Aug 9th 2008 3:14PM
I can't buy this cause I bought geo wars 2 and I need m$ points for castle crashers....I swear if they overprice that game I'm gonna start a boycott on xbla.. not only is it unfair to us as gamers, but it can also be unfair to some devs, I know castle crashers will be 1200, it's a deep game from what I've looked up, anyway I would have bought Braid, but I was crippled by the price and the circumstances :(
Azrael @ Aug 9th 2008 3:14PM
Sorry but I just didn't liked it. Plus is too expensive for that sort of game. if it were less expensive ($5) I would probably buy it for my kids. But at that price, no way.
Also the timing is terrible, geometry wars 2 is awesome, castle crashers is coming, soul calibur 2 costs a lot *plus dlc on the way and force unleashed is knocking the door.
Maybe this guy should consider porting it to Wiiware, it seems like the sort of audience he is looking for. and they are starving for games (any kind!)
ZenGaijin @ Aug 9th 2008 3:45PM
I'm also in this boat I played the demo and simply didn't like it. Nothing against the game or the people that love just not something I enjoyed. Next week maybe will have the same opinion about Bionic Commando but regardless they already have my money next Wenesday.
Stewart Bananas @ Aug 9th 2008 4:01PM
The worst part is that the demo does not represent the rest of the game. The first world (world 2) doesn't involve any sort of time mechanics other than saving yourself from death.
***SPOILER ALERT***
World 3 has things that are unaffected by going back in time, World 4 has it so when you move forward, time goes forward and when you move backward time reverses and it stands still if you do, World 5 has a shadow that does whatever you just did once you rewind time, and world 6 has a ring that slows down time in the are you put it down.
***END SPOILER***
The mechanics are very interesting in the later levels and it makes for some very interesting puzzles.
Arnon @ Aug 9th 2008 3:20PM
I was aware that 1200 MS points = $12.95, not $15.. $2 less can make all the difference, yo~ >.>b
Richard Mitchell @ Aug 9th 2008 3:30PM
Nope, it's $15. 80 MS Points = $1.00
Arnon @ Aug 10th 2008 2:11AM
Boo.. that sucks.. Oh well. This game is worth $15
Pete @ Aug 9th 2008 3:32PM
This goes out to all the people all over the interwebs screaming that they won't pay $15 bucks for a Super Mario Bros. clone..... YOU'RE ****ING NUTS!!!
X3F, thanks so much for again highlighting this game.
I guarantee you that when this game moves over to the PC and starts getting the attention that Portal did, a lot of these naysayers will turn it around. As you guys put it, this is one of gaming's fine achievements. As I put it, this game is a timeless and instant classic that transcends both genres it takes from.
Forget achievement points and the empty sense of accomplishment you get from those. To anyone who's beaten world 2, tell me you didn't just stare at the screen and go "Wow!" after you finally figured out how to get that last puzzle piece.
You guys said it more adequately than I ever could. This is a great game that must be played. ....(so we can have another game from the developer... please)
Stewart Bananas @ Aug 9th 2008 3:37PM
I was stuck on those last two puzzle pieces on World 2 and when I finally figured it out (by accident of course...) my mouth hit the floor.
The puzzles in this game are extremely clever and I really enjoyed my first play through.
Gloqwi @ Aug 9th 2008 4:01PM
I think Braid is all right, but I can't see myself spending 1200 MS Points on it.
UNSCleric @ Aug 9th 2008 4:10PM
I hope X3F is getting some form of pay for pushing Braid so hard.
ZEBRA NINER @ Aug 9th 2008 4:12PM
Richard also forgot another group of people. People that just don't like it.
Pete @ Aug 9th 2008 4:26PM
I don't have a problem with those people. I don't think anyone does. No one's trying to convince people who just don't like this type of game to buy it. It's the people who would have bought it and would have LOVED it - but won't because of a dollar amount equal to 2 slices of pizza and a soda - that most of us are getting on about.
As genius as I thought Portal was, that's not for everyone either. And that's totally cool. (I personally don't like Geometry Wars so... LOL)
Richard Mitchell @ Aug 9th 2008 4:52PM
Absolutely. If you don't like, you don't like it. Nothing wrong with that.
Silent majority @ Aug 9th 2008 4:17PM
The game is not that good. On top of that it's short. Not worth the praise or the money.
Pete @ Aug 9th 2008 4:35PM
To be fair to Penny Arcade though, their model is much more akin to the Half-Life series. In that way, the price is more than fair. They're releasing a full retail game in 3 episodes and the quality thus far has been undeniable. No one's bitching about Half-Life episodes 1, 2 and 3. You can't really fault a model like that.
Yeah, it's on XBLA but it's not actually an "Arcade" game. A lot of people kind of forget that. The 400 - 800 price point - back when the 360 debut - was for the types of games you'd find in arcades. They were puzzlers, coin-op classics, fighting games... They weren't full RPGS and they sure as hell weren't 6 hour platform games. In a few cases, XBLA users come out on top.
Puzzle Quest - the actual original game I believe to be priced above 800msp came out for 1200msp. $15. It was basically the same game that came out for the DS (and PSP) with the PC version's graphics, achievements, and the ability to get DLC. yet it was still $15 cheaper than when it came out for the DS.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the 800msp price point should disappear. I'm just saying that the bar has been raised so much, it's only natural for the price to raise a bit as well.