Recent Xbox Live bans done to retain 'health of the video game business'
After hearing modding forums across the interwebs explode in anger when finding out about Microsoft's recent use of the Xbox Live banhammer, Microsoft's Major Nelson decided to make an official comment.
"In our our continued effort to keep gameplay safe and secure for our community of more than 14 million members, Microsoft has taken action against a small percentage of Xbox 360 consoles that have been illegally modified in order to play pirated games. The health of the video game business depends on customers paying for the genuine products and services they receive, both from manufacturers and the local companies that support them."
So, there you have it. The health of the video game business depends on slapping modders and haxorz on the wrist and taking their Xbox Live privileges away. So, kids, don't do it. Don't mod. Or just don't go on Xbox Live with your mod. (End X3F public service announcement.)
[Thanks, to everyone who sent this in]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
joeybeast @ Nov 12th 2008 11:36AM
If you are dumb enough to connect a modded xbox to live, you deserve to be banned.
Chester @ Nov 12th 2008 11:41AM
AGREED!
Yamagushi @ Nov 12th 2008 11:44AM
I think you both need to get lives. The people saying things like "Good they deserve it!" sound lamer than the ones bitching about getting banned.
DjDATZ @ Nov 12th 2008 11:47AM
Agreed.
Chester @ Nov 12th 2008 11:59AM
Yamagushi:
Agreeing with something M$ has done makes you lame!! Seriously? LOL, ok man!
Your not making any sense!
tabicat @ Nov 12th 2008 11:59AM
Agree. No one is saying you don't have the right to mod your Xbox or that you shouldn't do it. But Xbox Live is a shared service that depends on people co-operating.
It's like cars. Your free to modify your car as you see fit, if you just ride it around your private property. But if you want to drive that car on public roads with other cars, you have to conform to some rules that limit what you can do with your car.
Roto13 @ Nov 12th 2008 12:31PM
The difference is you actually own your car. You don't own your Xbox, you just own the license to use it. Check the warranty.
Conor @ Nov 16th 2008 6:53PM
Tabicat hit the nail on the head there.
Well done.
DjDATZ @ Nov 12th 2008 3:47PM
LOL...Sweet. Got voted down cuz people don't realise that unless you specify who you're replying to, that you're replying to the original comment.
Roto13 @ Nov 12th 2008 11:43PM
And I got voted down because people don't like to hear the truth. Seriously, go look it up. If you have an Xbox, you have the documentation.
Albert @ Nov 13th 2008 11:46AM
You own your Xbox. No one can take it from you. You can look at the documentation all you'd like but you cannot change the fact that MS cannot go into your home and take your Xbox away from you. Xbox Live however, is a service that you pay for. You agreed to the Terms of Service on Xbox Live that if you pirate, they have the right to termination.
Roto13 @ Nov 13th 2008 12:08PM
If you send it in for repair and they find that you've doing something with it that you're not supposed to, they can keep it. That's because it's theirs.
KrisR @ Nov 12th 2008 11:37AM
Serves Em right I say.
krellish @ Nov 12th 2008 11:39AM
I actually heard this was a round of console banning, not xbl banning..
Morgon @ Nov 12th 2008 11:46AM
They're almost one in the same.. An account ban just bans the GamerTag, while a console ban keeps anyone from using that Xbox on Live.
DjDATZ @ Nov 12th 2008 11:58AM
@Morgon Precisely, but really, it's not the same. It has similar effects, but it's not the same.
Banning a Gamertag from live means that gamertag can NEVER go on XBL unless that ban is lifted. Other gamertags on that console, including newly created ones as a result can still access XBL.
Banning a console from XBL means that that console specifically cannot access XBL. However, moving the gamertags to another console allows you to still connect to XBL.
Both bans prevent you from accessing XBL in one way, but there are ways around it, however expensive they may be. Microsoft doesn't want you to not be able to access their service. They want to stop you from doing things they don't want on their service.
Fx.Dr @ Nov 12th 2008 11:39AM
MS may be well within their rights banning modded consoles, but the Major has head up his ass saying modding them is illegal.
DjDATZ @ Nov 12th 2008 11:47AM
Modding them is LEGAL, but VOIDS your warranty on the 360 and connecting a modded 360 to XBL VIOLATES the XBL Terms and Conditions, hence they DO have the RIGHT to ban your ass AND have a LEGITIMATE REASON to do so.
Dirty @ Nov 12th 2008 11:47AM
Modding might be legal but downloading games to play on that console, not so legal.
Fx.Dr @ Nov 12th 2008 11:53AM
@ Dj & Dirty -
I never said otherwise. MS has my full support for keeping modded boxes off XBL. I just get irked whenever someone automatically equates the modding scene to piracy, as hinted at in the Majors quote.
DjDATZ @ Nov 12th 2008 12:00PM
Agreed. Absolutely, Modding =/= piracy, but I would say that most of the modding is for piracy purposes.
D dogg @ Nov 12th 2008 12:01PM
I agree, it's not illegal buy US constitutional law but it is stated in MS's Terms of Service that the hardware and software is not supposed to be modified so I think "The Major" is referring to it by MS's policy.
Using the word "illegal" so loosely though is a little disconcerting.
readmore @ Nov 12th 2008 12:21PM
The only benefit from modding an Xbox 360 is to play burned games. There is no home-brew gaming, dashboards, OS, or other legit software (unlike the first Xbox) that would SOMEWHAT legitimize modding. I'm sorry but those people with modded Xbox360 consoles are only in it for the burned games and if you say you have a modded console for OTHER reasons I would have no problems calling you a liar.
AoE @ Nov 12th 2008 2:38PM
Actually... I hate to tell you guys, but thanks to the DMCA that Clinton signed into law back in 1998... modding, well some forms at least, is actually illegal. Assuming that what we're talking about here is installing a device that helps you circumvent copyright protection, we're talking about a mod that, under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act is actually illegal.
You'd be shocked how poorly written and how poorly thought-out that law is... I've been slapped on the wrist thanks to it more than once. :(
Bac0nator @ Nov 12th 2008 11:40AM
joeybeast you said it right...
Mcfail @ Nov 12th 2008 11:44AM
Good, cyas
smergs @ Nov 12th 2008 11:49AM
I think it is a good thing for the gaming business. Pirating games are what lead to companies having less money to develop quality titles. Don't blame Microsoft for doing what is right. I modded an original xbox because of all of the cool things you could do with it. But considering the only thing you can do with a 360 is play pirated games I just don't see any reason to do it.
Now if I had an extra 360 just sitting around, I might try it out. But still, pay for the games you love to support the developers. Vote with your money so to speak.
Morgon @ Nov 12th 2008 11:50AM
Just to pre-emptively clear any confusion and hopefully prevent the (stupid) argument that "I can do whatever I want to my hardware" arguments I've seen --
You're absolutely right, you can do anything you want to your hardware. Turn it into a toaster. There is no 'ban' that can prevent you from using your modified Xbox. However, Xbox Live is NOT part of your hardware.
Xbox Live is a managed network, governed by their legal right to make their own terms and conditions for access. One of these Terms and Conditions is that you do not have a modified console.
Personally, as someone who quite enjoyed Halo 2 until the modders started infecting it, this is nothing short of a win for the rest of the well-behaved, paying gamers.
Dirty @ Nov 12th 2008 11:52AM
Hope this doesnt include my second box with a self repaired disc drive. They shouldnt be able to tell that I did it myself as I swapped out the boards properly but it makes me nervous none the less.
Chester @ Nov 12th 2008 12:01PM
I did the same thing 2 years ago, and still havent been banned. If that makes ya feel any better!
Chester @ Nov 12th 2008 12:01PM
I did the same thing 2 years ago, and still havent been banned. If that makes ya feel any better!
grimftw @ Nov 12th 2008 12:00PM
Majors a dick with hair... just look at'em! Whata Douche!!!
DudeRed @ Nov 12th 2008 12:24PM
Why would you say that? Because he made a statement explaining why MS banned people? Or because MS is punishing people for stealing games?
Either you steal games yourself or you are a moron...Congratulations!
MDJ2010 @ Nov 12th 2008 12:18PM
Seriously who could complain about this, is anyone who mods their consoles really not aware of the implications. This is M$ after all.
x silence x @ Nov 12th 2008 12:20PM
I'm not even sure how people continue to defend stealing games. I'm not sure why you need a 'back up'? Please enlighten me...
Jonman @ Nov 12th 2008 12:24PM
You know, in case you forget to pay for the game in the first place.
Benjamin09 @ Nov 12th 2008 1:06PM
@Jonman ....HAHAHAHAHAHA
Whoops! I forgot to pay for this game while I was downloading it and modding my xbox!
dlemay69 @ Nov 12th 2008 12:42PM
I don't advocate pirating games, and I can certainly understand what your definition of a "back up" is but in reality, discs get scratched, dropped, etc. Instead of having the capability to have a genuine backup of the disc, I now have to buy a new (or used) game. Unfortunately, there is no way to determine if its a backup, or a "back up" copy. I suppose that when you use XBL, you give up your right to use a backup.
Jonman @ Nov 12th 2008 12:50PM
So, yes, there is that argument. However, in all my years of disc-based console ownership, PS1, PS2, Dreamcast, Gamecube, Xbox and 360, I've *never* scratched a disc to render it unusable.
Let's face it - you're buying something worth $60. Take care of it, and you have no need for backups. The only counterargument to this I see is if you have kids, who might scratch discs. To which I reply if you kids aren't capable of using discs without scratching them, then perhaps they aren't ready for a console.
AoE @ Nov 12th 2008 9:00PM
Yeah, everyone knows the whole backup thing came about because modchip manufacturer's can't legally claim that their chips enable piracy... It's a really flimsy excuse though; who has that much disregard for their own stuff?!
Chris Browne @ Nov 12th 2008 12:43PM
Couple comments say there is only one reason for modding: Piracy. Not true, some, albeit few people mod to play backup copies of games they DO OWN. Until game companies will exchange scratched/damaged discs for a nominal fee there will continue to be a community who feels they have a right to backup their games as fair use.
JP @ Nov 12th 2008 1:04PM
@ Chris Browne-
That is fair...but that community has to be aware that modding and having "back-up" discs has a consequence. DO NOT GET ON XBL!...There is an end to jusitfy that means...it's called BANNED!
I agree with what someone said earlier...mod til your hearts content....but when you go on XBL...be prepared to "reap the whirlwind" it is as simple as that.
readmore @ Nov 12th 2008 1:04PM
Anyone that says they mod their console for backups only is full of BS. You know it, I know it.
OrgunDonor @ Nov 12th 2008 5:17PM
Of you can just remove the scratches from the disc... Its not hard and there are several ways to do it. Even local game retailers will professionally resurface discs for as little as £2! Failing that buy a tin of Brasso(or a fine metal polish) and clean the disc your self, it works so well you can make unreadable discs readable again!
joeybeast @ Nov 12th 2008 5:15PM
Make all games downloadable. You'll never have to worry about damage or lose your XBLA purchase, do you?
Anticrawl @ Nov 12th 2008 12:47PM
Now if they would just enforce the damn code of conduct we could start enjoying Xbox Live.
Chester @ Nov 12th 2008 1:58PM
I'm definitely with you on that one!! Should be #1 priority!
MDJ2010 @ Nov 13th 2008 2:53AM
Agreed!
Graeme Q @ Nov 12th 2008 12:59PM
The flip side is that consoles do actually get some benefit out of piracy. For a start, people have to buy the console. Secondly, people are playing games and that can actually cause people to buy them.
The loss of sales from piracey is a made up figure as i'd put a monkey on the fact that most games pirated wouldn't have been bought in the first place. Its part of the "I'll get this because I can" mentality.
Plus, anyone that did get caught in the latest banning period has just been stupid. MS don't do any new checks so presuming discs are pre'd properly, MS can't tell the difference. However, not prepping properly is user error and they deserve to fail.
Failing that, just don't connect to live or buy 2 consoles. Or, like I do, just buy the game, rent it first if you're unsure.
joeybeast @ Nov 12th 2008 5:22PM
By your logic, I should be allowed to steal a Mercedes car because I wouldn't have bought one, and my action doesn't hurt Mercedes in any way.